Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[Dawiichan]

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Pld gets the aoe taunt & has the heals & gets the ability to save other people. That all sounds like a crowd controler to me.

Pld is supposed to be the main tank why? Because of FFXI? But the tank there was Ninja... or Pld/Nin, which is still Nin.

Last thing I thought about was FFXI. If you look at the skill sets it's quite obvious.

WAR:
#1 Vengeance- Returns damage to enemies and reduced damage. This is a god to a crowd control tank.
#2 Collusion- Pretty much ensures that War keeps hate on a group of monsters.
#3 Steel Cyclone- Probably one of the best AoEs in the game right now. Extremely high burst damage make it so that you can gain burst hate and it can heal you up by a great amount, especially in a larger group of monsters.

PLD:
#1 Holy Succor- Increases sustainability of the PLD and targeted DD/Healer. This wouldn't be used as often when there are trash mobs since they would die fast anyway.
#2 Divine Veil- 100% block rate for 33% of the time. Pretty much makes PLDs very good against strong AA monsters, pretty much bosses. Also gives an AoE Regen which, if melees were more useful in current content, would be great to keep melees alive.
#3- Hallowed Ground- Just compare WAR's 15 minute skill to PLD's 15 minute skill. One is for burst damage (enmity burst) while the other is for sustainability.

However right now since content is all ranged DD, there is no need for a PLD since WAR can do everything better than a PLD especially if there are no melees that need taking care of. I mean Defense is barely important against bosses(for tanks), but it makes a huge difference against trash mobs. This is why WARs and PLDs have almost the same defense. That defense can decrease monster damage by 25%-50%, but against a boss it mainly affects AA which in the end only shaves off around 10% of the AA. I don't think WAR itself needs a nerf, I think PLDs need to be able to tank better (Innate Damage Reduc?) and make it so that bosses are deadlier versus the tank with its unavoidable abilities/AA.

Flash is the only AoE which PLD gets, and the amount of ENM it gives is good for an instant hate gain that will last until the first hit, however WAR can just pop collusion and the first hit will count towards them in hate.

[Mieck]

However right now since content is all ranged DD, there is no need for a PLD since WAR can do everything better than a PLD especially if there are no melees that need taking care of.

I hope then, if this line of thinking is considered, any adjustments would be held off until after Garuda had been in the wild for a while, since there was a response from the devs that said they were looking into making more encounters melee friendly, starting with her.

[KumaAkuma]

Flash is the only AoE which PLD gets, and the amount of ENM it gives is good for an instant hate gain that will last until the first hit, however WAR can just pop collusion and the first hit will count towards them in hate.

Fash has the same cooldown as Steel Cyclone and does not need tp first. Meaning Two flashes before first Cyclone goes off.
Pld has War Drum on top of that.
And Cure hate counts towards all mobs.

[Dawiichan]

Fash has the same cooldown as Steel Cyclone and does not need tp first. Meaning Two flashes before first Cyclone goes off.
Pld has War Drum on top of that.
And Cure hate counts towards all mobs.

On paper it sounds nice, but then think about it effectively. Lets think about the room with the ants and basilisks in CC. Warrior runs in, auto attacks 2-3 times as they get all the initial hate on ants. Returns, casts Collusion on BLM, then either combo to steel Cyclone or just pop it off with 2k TP. Not only that, they can use antagonize and/or sentinel. Sentinel for PLD doesn't work on heals or flash. Not only that, your steel cyclone also does a good chunk of the monsters HP.

Yea, PLD instead does Flash, then the hate gets stolen by a BLM, he can cover and hope that another BLM doesn't take hate, and killing the ants takes longer. Yea, not seeing it. Trash mob groups should be killed under 30 seconds. You could also heal, but why do you think the BLMs get the hate and not the healers that heal even more?

PLD could tank a group of mobs, but not only will it take a lot more work, the amount of damage you deal, which affects the amount of time it takes, would be a lot less than a WAR since their job is focused around that sort of situation.

[Rydin]

On paper it sounds nice, but then think about it effectively. Lets think about the room with the ants and basilisks in CC. Warrior runs in, auto attacks 2-3 times as they get all the initial hate on ants. Returns, casts Collusion on BLM, then either combo to steel Cyclone or just pop it off with 2k TP. Not only that, they can use antagonize and/or sentinel. Sentinel for PLD doesn't work on heals or flash. Not only that, your steel cyclone also does a good chunk of the monsters HP.

Yea, PLD instead does Flash, then the hate gets stolen by a BLM, he can cover and hope that another BLM doesn't take hate, and killing the ants takes longer. Yea, not seeing it. Trash mob groups should be killed under 30 seconds. You could also heal, but why do you think the BLMs get the hate and not the healers that heal even more?

Agreed... Very much so....

the heart of the argument is this:

Your DD's can only deal as much damage as the tank has hate. Yes DD's have enmity reduction abilities.. but the premise still stands, the more hate the tank has, the more damage the DD's can do....

Say PLD and WAR can hold hate equally....
So 2 parties fighting the exact same NM (Separately, obviously)...
Party A uses a PLD, party B uses WAR tank...

Both tanks have 10,000 units of enmity (using Kaeko's baseline 1 hp damage = 1 enmity scale)

PLD's 10,000 enmity is made up mostly of heals and abilities....
Say off the top of your head that, of the 10,000 enmity, 2800 of it is from damage....

WAR enmity comes from damage
So say... of the 10,000 enmity on a WAR... 7000 of it is damage
At this point, the MOB has over 4000 less HP...

That will ALWAYS be preferable UNLESS you get into a situation of survivability, where a PLD can survive a fight that a WAR cannot...
As we all know... the opposite happens... WAR's have more survivability than PLDs