You pull you tank question.

[Kyanari]

Why can't you just wait near the next pack of mobs or the boss rather than attacking before the tank? As a healer, it's concerning if DPS does this the whole run and if I wanted to focus my healing towards the tank. As a tank, I'm concerned towards the healer because not all healers can multi-task and use oGCDs really fast.

If the tank can see that you're ahead of them, it could give a go signal that they can pull more. YPYT is the result of DPS/healer doing this towards the tank so of course they'll do it in return.

[GTK0HLK]

Why can't you just wait near the next pack of mobs or the boss rather than attacking before the tank? As a healer, it's concerning if DPS does this the whole run and if I wanted to focus my healing towards the tank. As a tank, I'm concerned towards the healer because not all healers can multi-task and use oGCDs really fast.

If the tank can see that you're ahead of them, it could give a go signal that they can pull more. YPYT is the result of DPS/healer doing this towards the tank so of course they'll do it in return.

Except People do.

The problem isn't the DPS, or Healers when it comes to YPYT.

It's all clearly derived from tank ego. or failure of communicating their intent.(as well as the off chance that they had a bad day. and inadvertently took it out on the party)

Most here are involved with Older Players. Most new players wouldn't bring up or cause issues. and at lower level content. they'd be more understanding.

But as an understanding, once you've gone past Stormblood, people are rightfully expected to at least meet a basic level of Competency or expectation.

And if one isn't good at a role, or has gotten rusty. or First time.

They state that in chat. If it's a Tank, even more so, the party will wait as it's obvious when the tank hasn't moved at the start of the Duty.

Which then gives them enough time to message if they are on console or cannot respond quickly.

There really is no reason for the Conversation of YPYT to even Occur at all.

State your pace if you're still shaky, or express your rustyness if you're just capping a job, and haven't gotten back into the feel of it.

I and many have done so when we do a role we ain't used to, or a new/old job that hasn't gotten much use.

It's also a matter of Attitude, You aren't gonna amicably get a cooperative or understanding party when they pull that with huge attitude, or blatantly trolling via "Lethargic Gameplay"
(Same Applies to a party who abandons a tank, and let's them be on their own/fight mobs and boss alone. Out of Spite.)

It simply shouldn't even begin, or exist.

[Kyanari]

I don't see anything mentioned that DPS/healer asked the tank to pull more but instead pulled for them. I see people saying "oh this is normal in other games" but why do we expect that this is normal here too? Both sides failed to communicate what they want that's why it resulted to this but yeah people seem to blame it always towards the tank for some reason.

[noelregnard]

I don't see anything mentioned that DPS/healer asked the tank to pull more but instead pulled for them. I see people saying "oh this is normal in other games" but why do we expect that this is normal here too? Both sides failed to communicate what they want that's why it resulted to this but yeah people seem to blame it always towards the tank for some reason.

- W2W pulls are standard and expected in DF whether you like it or not. If you want to break standard you should speak up.
- Tanks who pull YPYT are ego tripping assholes who would rather hold the entire PT hostage than actually learning how to play properly. Just read this thread to see for yourself. We literally have a guy arguing for dozens of pages that they're intrinsically better and more important than DPS players for playing tanks.

[GTK0HLK]

-Shifitng Blame, and Snip-

That's like saying, That people should Say something cause it isn't obvious what is expected.

It's all under the part of, Expectations.

Some Tanks even ask at the start of the Duty out of concern for the Healer.

If nothing is said?

What are people supposed to do?

Act like only single pulls, focusing one enemy, or GCD healing?

No, people default into the Basic Expectation, since no one else has stated any concern.

Naturally in most parties the concerns that need to be stated are from the Tank and Healer. as they are the ones that are Blatantly Critical. Then The DPS. The reason why DPS concerns are last is cause if they don't do a good enough task, it'll take so long that it'll eventually hit a painful end of endurance. (But tanks and healers have a variety of tools to make the mistakes less painful)

[Hence why when such instances when a Tank, Healer, or the rare dps causes a fit. the Rest of the Party is able to move on without them.]

______________________________________________

Asking?

"BuH Whuh Abut Thos Huh Dint Ask if ithers Concented?"

We simply cannot know what players think or desire all the time.

If we have a concern we state it, if there is no concern, we default to what is expected.

The fact it has become so standard that it rarely has so many issues. (to the point players end up falling into "Autopilot") is a Testament to how standard it is for gameplay in Less demanding content all of this is for.

[Not even in More Stinging DT MSQ level Content, does this change at all.]

______________________________________________

Another thing people conveniently forget, yet has to be stated. Is that accidents do occur.

But if one party member overreacts over a mistake, or accident and they suddenly start acting like you intentional spilled sewage on them.

That isn't understanding, that's a lack of self control, and not verifying what went on. Jumping the gun.

______________________________________________

In this whole topic, the biggest issue is when people don't try to give the benefit of the doubt on their instant assumptions of the other. and resort to negative attitudes which then run off on the party.

And in the topic of YPYT, you simply cannot strawman "Consent" or asking the other party when no one asks or says anything.

You're ultimately in charge of your comfort zone, and your want in a party. If you don't, you put yourself in a painful position yourself.

It's a team effort, and not everyone immediately is expected to ask everyone every single time.

More so when you reach content later in the game such as in DT. with the Paladin I ran across days ago. (Who gave Paladins a bad name.)

If it's all a team effort, your own concerns need to be stated by yourself. If it comes crashing down cause you kept your own concerns quiet. You could of tempered expectations.

But it ignited, from them.

[Dimi824]

For all those who are scared to w2w pull, its not very hard. Rip the bandaid off and try it:

Tanks: SPRINT past first pack while using your 1-2 aoe combo and plant on the 2nd pack: use rampart + job + arm's length for 1 pull, your 40% for the other. You can reprisal both pulls and anything else with a shorter cooldown. Use your mits as you plant on the 2nd pack, not 5 seconds before the pull is over.

Healers: WHM: SPRINT alongside the tank as you dot things. When tank plants cast asylum and start spamming holy and assize. Aquaveil, benison, tetra in between holy casts after it stops stunning(3 hits). Temperance 1 pull, Bell the other. Benediction for emergencies.

SCH: Slam the mobs as you run alongside the tank. When the tank plants, drop a sacred soil and excog on the tank. Lustrate, Fey Blessing, Whispering Dawn, Aetherpact to supplement healing if needed. I use expedient to run between the first and 2nd pull faster but feel free to use it for w2w pulls if you need it.

Similar things apply to sage and astro as well.

DPS: SPRINT alongside your tank. AOE 1-2 and when the tank plants start unloading your aoe rotation.

EVERYONE can learn this in a few dungeons. It's okay to fail.

[ObscuraFi]

-.

You can ignore this person that didn't see the front page 700 page healer thread and strike regarding other roles (such as tank) being given healer abilities that lower the usefulness of healers (exact wording: "encroaches on the role - 399 likes"), as well as noting that tank sustain getting buffed again for a 2nd expansion when it wasn't needed. ("increased tank sustain that they didn't need - 121 likes"). People are out here unsubbing from the game and refusing to play the role in content in mass because their role is being slowly invalidated and is boring af, but apparently some people want to have an identity crisis going into denial about their importance, meanwhile ACTUAL healers have been making threads with 300+ upvotes since 2020 that literally read "Warrior, paladin and gunbreaker all have enough sustain that they literally don't need healers and can keep other party members alive at the same time." "but the problem is that collectively the overall mitigation and healing from non healers is enough to negate healers entirely."

You got a small minority of the gaslighting section the forums saying healers are just as important as tanks, and the other 95%+ making threads, going on strike, and giving feedback how they feel useless and negated inside of content.

[Dimi824]

You can ignore this person that didn't see the front page 700 page healer thread and strike regarding other roles (such as tank) being given healer abilities that lower the usefulness of healers (exact wording: "encroaches on the role - 399 likes"), as well as noting that tank sustain getting buffed again for a 2nd expansion when it wasn't needed. ("increased tank sustain that they didn't need - 121 likes"). People are out here unsubbing from the game and refusing to play the role in content in mass because their role is being slowly invalidated and is boring af, but apparently some people want to have an identity crisis going into denial about their importance, meanwhile ACTUAL healers have been making threads with 300+ upvotes since 2020 that literally read "Warrior, paladin and gunbreaker all have enough sustain that they literally don't need healers and can keep other party members alive at the same time." "but the problem is that collectively the overall mitigation and healing from non healers is enough to negate healers entirely."

You got a small minority of the gaslighting section the forums saying healers are just as important as tanks, and the other 95%+ making threads, going on strike, and giving feedback how they feel useless and negated inside of content.

You realize that the majority of the healer strike is memes right? There are legitimate concerns about the healer role but based on all your posts here you simply lack the common sense and even basic game knowledge to even understand the nuance behind it. You've been talking out your ass pretty much this entire thread. Have you done ANY relevant content? Like seriously here.

[Dimi824]

Go to character lodestone, search "voidsent" with "halicarnassus" restriction. You'll see 19 of my characters leveled up to 80-90, all with rank 10-25 in Bozja, all with free companies matching this Obscura name. Then I want you to go to Halicarnassus, Goblet, Check Ward 11, Plot 6, 41,42, 55 as personal plots and check their FC. Then go to Ward 14 and see another 10 personal's with the same voidsent names. Then go to ward 7, subdivision, check the apartment building and see all 90 slots filled with voidsent and numbered voidsent names. Then go to Maduin, Goblet, Ward 11 and find another 8 personal houses with every small poolside taken, and another 4 voidsent personal names in ward 22. Then I want you to go back to lodestone, search "broker" under "all data centers" "class/job: marauder" and see the amount of Kuroki retainers. Then go to youtube and search "2 data center profits before peace treaty" to see a livestream of /most/ of those retainers and me pulling 400Mil out on the Voidsent character from my main forum account just in leftover sales, not even fully sold out yet. Now you tell me, 19 voidsent names, at minimum is 3 service accounts alone even if they were all alts. Who would rank up in Bozja 19 times on the same 3 accounts? How would I have 12+ personal houses on the same world on Dynamis when you can only have 1 personal house on a world per account with no ability to transfer personal house ownership like free company housing? How would I have 90 characters all on Hali for owning an entire apartment building if I didn't have at least 12 service accounts? You think I had 12 friends that I got to level up to 50 8 times? Or do you think I paid for 70+ job and msq skips for them in the mogstation? for accounts that aren't mine. I want to hear your EU explanation and see how far you want to go into denial before I have to sign into every account and post a screenshot of your forum post next to all of them in the yard.

You play that much are still this bad at the game? Do you think bozja ranks and having lots of gil is indicative of being good at the game or having good game sense and knowledge when it comes to raiding? All those things you're espousing have nothing to do with the latter. It's all just pointless flexing for no reason.

[Kyanari]

- W2W pulls are standard and expected in DF whether you like it or not. If you want to break standard you should speak up.
- Tanks who pull YPYT are ego tripping assholes who would rather hold the entire PT hostage than actually learning how to play properly. Just read this thread to see for yourself. We literally have a guy arguing for dozens of pages that they're intrinsically better and more important than DPS players for playing tanks.

What I read from this thread tells me that they are upset because the tank got upset because they decided to pull before them. Rather than telling "it's ok to pull more, we got you", you just went ahead and decided for yourself. How is that considerate for the party? Please, let us not generalize things and conclude that tanks doing this are ego tripping. We don't even know what's going on with them. Oh, and if people will say that this doesn't happen in other regions and that they're nice, they just want to get over this thing but I bet some of them were also annoyed by doing this kind of behavior.

You can ignore this person that didn't see the front page 700 page healer thread and strike regarding other roles (such as tank) being given healer abilities that lower the usefulness of healers (exact wording: "encroaches on the role - 399 likes"), as well as noting that tank sustain getting buffed again for a 2nd expansion when it wasn't needed. ("increased tank sustain that they didn't need - 121 likes"). People are out here unsubbing from the game and refusing to play the role in content in mass because their role is being slowly invalidated and is boring af, but apparently some people want to have an identity crisis going into denial about their importance, meanwhile ACTUAL healers have been making threads with 300+ upvotes since 2020 that literally read "Warrior, paladin and gunbreaker all have enough sustain that they literally don't need healers and can keep other party members alive at the same time." "but the problem is that collectively the overall mitigation and healing from non healers is enough to negate healers entirely."

You got a small minority of the gaslighting section the forums saying healers are just as important as tanks, and the other 95%+ making threads, going on strike, and giving feedback how they feel useless and negated inside of content.

What you're referring to seems totally irrelevant to this topic.