You pull you tank question.

[noelregnard]

This is embarrassing you should stop. You went on and on endlessly about how a tank needs to adapt to every contingency, every possible situation. And then in the same breath "You must follow my original plan, MINE, or I'll let you die". The hypocrisy and the lack of self awareness is so palpable you can almost taste it.

When you have a situation that'll smack you and remind you of your role, then you get humble and stay behind the tank like you were supposed to be. You don't run savage or ultimate content and say "well i wanted to clear faster so I pulled" as a DPS. You only pull that stupid argument in a dungeon. You know your place, you just don't like being reminded of it.

More main character nonsense, do you not feel embarrassed typing these out? Are you twelve?

[LilyPendragon]

You don't run savage or ultimate content and say "well i wanted to clear faster so I pulled" as a DPS. You only pull that stupid argument in a dungeon. You know your place, you just don't like being reminded of it.

Double post because phone

Kinda showing your lack of knowledge here too.

There are plenty of times where dps pull in raids. In ShB and EW, in good groups, it would be common to let certain jobs dictate when to pull for certain optimisation. Astros, Dancers, Black Mages, Samurai could all advantage by dictating this, indeed samurai could gain advantage by actually pulling to get a third eye proc

[VoidsentStatus]

Double post because phone

Kinda showing your lack of knowledge here too.

There are plenty of times where dps pull in raids. In ShB and EW, in good groups, it would be common to let certain jobs dictate when to pull for certain optimisation. Astros, Dancers, Black Mages, Samurai could all advantage by dictating this, indeed samurai could gain advantage by actually pulling to get a third eye proc

And you're showing your lack of knowledge of the english language.

1) "to let" implies that it was a group decision, not a lone wolf choice. Letting is permission. That is not what's happening inside of dungeons. This would be the equivalent of some bard starting an alliance raid by himself while the tanks are in cutscene and noone in the alliances complain. You have a static group getting set up in voice chat, reviewing strategies and laying waymarkers, and some non-tank on their own just randomly starts the fight with no cooldown timer, no indication that everyone is present and ready.

2) "dictate when to pull" is them giving feedback on the cooldown timer asking the tank to start at said time. Who actually lets off the first GCD even under that situation? The tank. Because no matter what the consensus is in the group, if you don't have a tank that agrees to that cooldown timer, you're not starting the boss without a tank.

[Chiru_Kai]

Is it bad these days to expect and assume a basic level of knowledge and competency of all your party members?

YPYT is a toxic mindset. People who have it do intentional misplays, and make intentional mistakes.
Because it's basically a toxic level of acceptance where the general mentality is: "I'm bad at the game, and because I'm bad at the game, I want to make this whole experience miserable for you too, and you better accept that, I will not try harder and you're a bad person™ for wanting me to try harder."

It's entitlement at its very core.
As a tank, your single pulls make dungeons last twice as long, if not longer. This is disrespectful to the time availability of the 3 other players.

What's next, we can't expect people in shooters to know how to have a semblance of aiming and shooting at enemy targets? Don't have to hit every shot perfectly but yknow, make an attempt! YPYT is said by people who do not make an attempt and are proud of it.

You don't need to be a godlike top-tier tank. But a basic understanding of the fundamentals is expected and encouraged.

People can adjust expectations downwards if you like, but the default setting is: we zoomin' and vast majority of playerbase expects wall-to-wall pulls and vast majority of dungeons are also designed with this in mind.
It's also a matter of practice: the more you do this, the easier it becomes. Assume the healer is keeping an eye on you and they're used to every other tank double-pulling and sometimes making mistakes as well.
If you're a sprout, if it's your first time doing a dungeon, if you're new to tanking/healing, if you just wanna take it slow and read the roleplay notes on the floor, just say so at the start of a dungeon and people will *happily* let you get your bearings, do single pulls, and make all the mistakes. But in the end, you *should* feel like what you're doing is out of the ordinary and this is a special exception made for you, just this run.

[Dimi824]

just hit your aoe 1-2. It's not that deep.

[LilyPendragon]

And you're showing your lack of knowledge of the english language.


Who actually lets off the first GCD even under that situation?

You ever heard the phrase 'if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging'? The fact you're resorting to questioning my comprehension of the English language definitely attests that your argument is built on sand.

As the answer to your question is not 'the tank', in normal scenarios outside of what I outlined (high end optimisation), it's 'literally everybody'

[Mistress_Irika]

Is it bad these days to expect and assume a basic level of knowledge and competency of all your party members?

YPYT is a toxic mindset. People who have it do intentional misplays, and make intentional mistakes.
Because it's basically a toxic level of acceptance where the general mentality is: "I'm bad at the game, and because I'm bad at the game, I want to make this whole experience miserable for you too, and you better accept that, I will not try harder and you're a bad person™ for wanting me to try harder."

It's entitlement at its very core.
As a tank, your single pulls make dungeons last twice as long, if not longer. This is disrespectful to the time availability of the 3 other players.

What's next, we can't expect people in shooters to know how to have a semblance of aiming and shooting at enemy targets? Don't have to hit every shot perfectly but yknow, make an attempt! YPYT is said by people who do not make an attempt and are proud of it.

You don't need to be a godlike top-tier tank. But a basic understanding of the fundamentals is expected and encouraged.

People can adjust expectations downwards if you like, but the default setting is: we zoomin' and vast majority of playerbase expects wall-to-wall pulls and vast majority of dungeons are also designed with this in mind.
It's also a matter of practice: the more you do this, the easier it becomes. Assume the healer is keeping an eye on you and they're used to every other tank double-pulling and sometimes making mistakes as well.
If you're a sprout, if it's your first time doing a dungeon, if you're new to tanking/healing, if you just wanna take it slow and read the roleplay notes on the floor, just say so at the start of a dungeon and people will *happily* let you get your bearings, do single pulls, and make all the mistakes. But in the end, you *should* feel like what you're doing is out of the ordinary and this is a special exception made for you, just this run.

Then this needs to apply to every role. Nothing is said about those that only uses single targets on dps. Very little is said when it comes to healers doing no dps. It's brought up but occasionally. Yet it's okay to change a tank's speed for the sake of time simply because of how the dungeons were designed from ShB to now. This is now on top of expecting tanks to restart on a sub boss because everyone else wiped. If this is a big deal how about asking the devs to update the Hall of Training, so that those learning the role for the first time can start multi pulling on their first dungeon?

Or rather a better question: how about the tanks be properly balanced so that this sort of discussion doesn't keep popping up?

[VoidsentStatus]

Is it bad these days to expect and assume a basic level of knowledge and competency of all your party members?.

Yes. Because apparently you missed the memo that people don't read in this game.

That assumption aside, you're a pot calling the kettle black.

Your entitlement to your time is balanced by the well-being and enjoyment of the experience of others.

Your prioritize time. They prioritize safety and comfort. And when you force your priority onto someone else, they will force their priority right back.

And at the end of the day, safety and comfort are more important than time obligations when you're in a group setting. Hence why healers go on tangents when they stop getting commendations for "optimizing their dps" and leaving tanks and other party members on the border of dying and playing russian roulette on them surviving the next mechanic or pull. You are not entitled to completing content in the fastest means possible. You are subject to bathroom breaks, personal rotation choices, cutscene watching, blind mechanic knowledge that can subject you to wipes, you aren't guaranteed a clear within x minutes. Expressing that expectation on other people is an entitlement to begin with, and having it is ignorant because it's not going to get met consistently at all. It being "ordinary" is also with extreme scrutiny due to only being even remotely accurate for end game content only. If you were to dps and level up naturally in dungeons from 1 to 100 and say nothing in chat, wall to wall pulls are going to be the vast minority of your runs. Most new players are not aware of these expectations, or are not comfortable with these expectations. And we're also talking specifically for NA at least, because JP doesn't have this expectation either.

In regard to shooters with aiming and shooting at enemy targets, this is actually a bad example that proves the point even moreso of bad expectations.
1) People that are excessively bad or handicapped are put into protected brackets under SBMM to where the regular playerbase does not see them. FF14 does not have SBMM in the Duty Finder.
2) Call of Duty especially is bad for this due to challenges, equipment use, akimbo weapons, knife usage, riot shield, etc. especially in objective game modes where distraction duty, smoke screens etc. are implemented and specific players are tasked with "slayer" duty. You don't have to have any semblance of aiming and shooting targets that you would expect to be able to contribute toward a win. You'd just be mad that they don't have the K/D and killstreaks that you'd want them to have. But, any high skill player will tell you they'd rather have someone suiciding on the B flag repeatedly with 0 kills than some person aiming for kills that's never on the objective.

[VoidsentStatus]

As the answer to your question is not 'the tank', in normal scenarios outside of what I outlined (high end optimisation), it's 'literally everybody'

Find 1 video on youtube of a Savage run where a DPS performs the first GCD without a timer and without the tank GCD being within 0.25s after.

[LilyPendragon]

.

What's next, we can't expect people in shooters to know how to have a semblance of aiming and shooting at enemy targets? Don't have to hit every shot perfectly but yknow, make an attempt! YPYT is said by people who do not make an attempt and are proud of it.

YPYT isn't even this, it's turning around and throwing a grenade at your team at spawn