You pull you tank question.

[VoidsentStatus]

"a tank serves as the party's shield." - Lodestone job guide.

If a tank's job isn't to grab aggro genuinely what is their job. We're not playing other games either, we're playing FFXIV Online: A Realm Reborn in the year 2024. They just got an enmity increase on their AoE and have had an enmity increase on their ranged attack for a while so they can grab aggro off the DPS even though that apparently isn't their job, weird.

And guess what shields do? They lead the battlefield. If you're a soldier, you don't run past the shield to draw aggro against the enemy frontline and get shot/stabbed and then try to duck back behind the shield after you get fucked up and scream "protect me". "Well you're not pushing enemy lines fast enough for me". Your general would smack you assuming you weren't dishonorably discharged for suiciding and putting your allies at risk. You don't see a mention of healers having a responsibility of drawing aggro. You don't see DPS's having a responsibility of drawing aggro. I also don't see a mention saying that tanks and healers have to follow DPS's into Narnia to save them from dying, nor do I see footage of anyone passing the tank.

[AlaineIV]

If you ask me, tanks NOT sprinting, or using enough mits is a WAY bigger problem, or a Healer not knowing how to read a DRK's buff bar for LD.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Snip

So a few things wrong in how you interpret the TOS.

1)
"・Expressions that compel a playing style"
-its not saying you can't do big pulls. It's saying you can't demand someone they do big pulls if they don't want to. Someone needs to initiate the fact they don't want big pulls before it becomes a TOS violation.

2) ・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
-this one is more aimed towards tanks dragging tank buster's or aoes to kill people. Yes you can argue DPS fall in this as well but the thing is wall to wall pulls have been the norm for years and only really fall into this again, after someone needs to be vocal about them not wanting it.

3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
-you're in a dungeon here. The intent is to go faster, not to kill your fellow tank. Again, if a conversation is had and then they continue, then you can report.

As for
・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
-if a tank says YPYT, that's an outright refusal of playing correctly.
Literally the first example it gives is "I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."
How is that any different from refusing to tank because you don't like that someone pulled for you?


The big thing in this is that yes, both sides can be reported. However. For the DPS to be reportable, a discussion needs to take place first. For the tank to be reported, they just have to say YPYT.

[VoidsentStatus]

.

1) You just said the same thing that I said. "trying to get someone else to do" something is not the same as doing it on their own willingly. All you did was replace "trying to get someone to do" with "demand", which functionally have the same meaning since persuasion would fall under "trying to get someone to want to do". I don't even know what this clarification is for.

2) Tankbusters and aoe's are not enmity related, those are role-tasked damage. It specifically says "actions" aka job actions that affect enmity and manipulating them to interfere with someone's gameplay. If I see someone fighting low level adds doing an AOE in open world and I drag an S rank to them and force them to take aggro away from me, I have manipulated the enmity they were generating for their adds that could potentially cause them to die or not be able to achieve their initial gameplay goal.

3) The intent doesn't matter for MPK. Square Enix purposely details when intent does matter inside of its guidelines. Stalking violations, it matters. Trade blocking, it matters. Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat, it matters. MPK does not have that language attached, therefore you cannot infer Square Enix would care about that distinction.

"Simply performing the acts listed above will not immediately result in a violation, as they could be caused unintentionally or be due to unintended circumstances."
"despite being asked to stop the behavior."
""Nuisance behavior" is speech or behavior that hurts others or obstructs their gameplay, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not intended, a penalty may be issued if the end result was that another person was hurt, or their gameplay was obstructed."
"If it has been determined that the above behaviors were done intentionally **or repeatedly** to obstruct the other player's gameplay, then a penalty will be issued."

4) That's refusing to play **YOUR** definition of correct. Square is not going to punish a player for their definition of correct as long as they doing bare minimum of still contributing to the instance. Their rotation does not matter, their mitigation does matter. Their positioning past a certain point does not matter. Square Enix does not enforce optimal play, nor do they enforce cooperative play as my original post detailed.

[Abriael]

Nowhere in the TOS it says that a tank needs to play at YOUR pace.

As a tank since day 1 of 1.0, who tramples dungeons from start to finish and that DPS normally have to try and keep up with, the readings of the TOS I'm seeing here are absolutely ludicrous and hilarious. There are many people who have very tangible and legitimate issues (age, a variety of disabilities, severe anxiety, and so forth) with being hurried through a dungeon because a DPS doesn't want to take 2 minutes longer to finish it and move to the next big thing in their busy schedule.

By pulling when the tank isn't ready you are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay, not them. Many of those who say "you pull you tank" do so out of exasperation caused by rude people like you.

Perhaps, before blabbering about who should be reported, you should start thinking about your own crappy behavior. You never know who is on the other side of the screen and what issues they may have causing them to go at a pace you personally consider slow. Adapting to the slowest person's pace for these meager 25 minutes it takes is a matter of basic courtesy, but many people nowadays have absolutely no idea of what that means.

I swear, some of you people must think this is your day job.

[Somnolence]

How this thread got to 29 pages?

Is this cringe problem so common? In all my time playing since mid of SB I haven't run into this not even once.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Nowhere in the TOS it says that a tank needs to play at YOUR pace.

As a tank since day 1 of 1.0, who tramples dungeons from start to finish and that DPS normally have to try and keep up with, the readings of the TOS I'm seeing here are absolutely ludicrous and hilarious. There are many people who have very tangible and legitimate issues (age, a variety of disabilities, severe anxiety, and so forth) with being hurried through a dungeon because a DPS doesn't want to take 2 minutes longer to finish it and move to the next big thing in their busy schedule.

By pulling when the tank isn't ready you are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay, not them. Many of those who say "you pull you tank" do so out of exasperation caused by rude people like you.

Perhaps, before blabbering about who should be reported, you should start thinking about your own crappy behavior. You never know who is on the other side of the screen and what issues they may have causing them to go at a pace you personally consider slow. Adapting to the slowest person's pace for these meager 25 minutes it takes is a matter of basic courtesy, but many people nowadays have absolutely no idea of what that means.

I swear, some of you people must think this is your day job.

I'm referring to the TOS because it's the one true guideline that people can't contest. Everyone will have different feelings and view points of the situation as we see in this and many other threads before.
All I did with my last post is identify who is actually at fault and when they are as per SEs rules.
I never said tanks can't speak up about it. Only that using YPYT as a response is indeed against TOS.

[Abriael]

I'm referring to the TOS because it's the one true guideline that people can't contest. Everyone will have different feelings and view points of the situation as we see in this and many other threads before.
All I did with my last post is identify who is actually at fault and when they are as per SEs rules.
I never said tanks can't speak up about it. Only that using YPYT as a response is indeed against TOS.

The TOS is there to prevent and discourage harassment, not to use as a tool to bludgeon your playstyle on others. Also, saying "It's the one true guideline that people can't contest" is laughable. Like all legalese, it's open to plenty of interpretation, as the widely ranging (and ludicrous) readings in this thread and others amply demonstrate.

[Galvuu]

This thread keeps getting bumped.
I can't believe we're having this discussion in the year of our Lord 2024.
There's no way anyone tries to defend ytyp nonsense in DT, where all that's required to keep aggro is use the first hit of your aoe combo once every 5s, and where the most common tank can press Bloodwhetting and top themselves off without any healer assistance.
What's next? A thread going on about how healers don't need to use their dps spells, or how dps players shouldn't be expected to aoe dungeon packs?
I can't even...

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

Neither of these are true. You can complete a dungeon with 1 healer and 3 DPS, but it will be slower.
You can complete a dungeon with a Warrior, Gunbreaker or Paladin and 3 DPS and will clear faster. Honestly you can probably do it with Dark Knight if the DPS are good.

You can wall pull healerless with a DRK, it's been done and filmed, you just need good DPS so mits don't run out.