You pull you tank question.

[noelregnard]

Go run Stone Vigil as a GNB with a sprout WHM using Cure 1 and do the first wall to wall pull with Reprisal first, and then Arm's Length and come back to me.

LMAO I can think of stupid scenarios too

Still have no idea how any of this nonsense justifies YPYT but please continue, this is so funny

[VoidsentStatus]

LMAO I can think of stupid scenarios too

Still have no idea how any of this nonsense justifies YPYT but please continue, this is so funny

By stupid scenarios, you mean things that would actually happen? You think people have to argue on the forums and in discords about Cure1/2 just for their health and not because Cure 1 use is common? You think having a WHM that's heal botting and not using Holy is an unrealistic situation? You think healers not knowing to keep HoT's up at all times is unrealistic? There's a lot of playstyles you run into if you actually pugged dungeons a lot, and which playstyle you have, you wouldn't know until after you already pulled. But because you're a trust NPC and don't care about mitigation order, you wouldn't have a problem doing a wall to wall on the first pull of any dungeon (Stone Vigil included) completely blind on your healer's capabilities and using your weakest mitigation first on the one of the hardest hitting pulls inside of the leveling process within the first 2-3 expansions.

[noelregnard]

By stupid scenarios, you mean things that would actually happen? You think people have to argue on the forums and in discords about Cure1/2 just for their health and not because Cure 1 use is common? You think having a WHM that's heal botting and not using Holy is an unrealistic situation? You think healers not knowing to keep HoT's up at all times is unrealistic? There's a lot of playstyles you run into if you actually pugged dungeons a lot, and which playstyle you have, you wouldn't know until after you already pulled. But because you're a trust NPC and don't care about mitigation order, you wouldn't have a problem doing a wall to wall on the first pull of any dungeon (Stone Vigil included) completely blind on your healer's capabilities and using your weakest mitigation first on the one of the hardest hitting pulls inside of the leveling process within the first 2-3 expansions.

First of all I know how to cycle my mitigations so your idea of me using only reprisal for a wall to wall pull is stupid. Second of all, yes things may happen, people may die, party may wipe. So? What's your point? None of that affects the number of buttons you have nor their cooldowns. Do you even know how to cycle your mitigations? And none of this justifies YPYT either so all of this crap is completely pointless.

[BokoToloko]

h.

1) In case you've magically forgotten, MSQ forces you to go through 9 dungeons and 4 proto-trials for 2.0 story, alone. Yes, you are to tackle multiplayer content. And you're the one hiding behind that excuse so... yeah, my point stands quite strongly actually.
2) Now that trying to appeal to "what everyone does" doesn't work for you, you're hiding behind "what the dev" allows. Allow me to put you out of your misery. Devs are not the comunity. What the comunity agrees and what the devs think are NOT the same. And if you asked many of us, you would find that few players look kindly on the skip potions not having any measure to ensure the skippers do so completely oblivious or that pèople just refuses to make use of what tools there are, either in-game or from outside sources. And GNB scenario does show you the ropes because they DO tell you what your mitigations are, to activate your stance and to use your combo, including cardridge combo during it's course. They do teach you the ropes. And this is why me and many other people bother speaking up when someone messes up so, even if they didn't go through all those resources, they do get the chance to learn.

3) The amount of things you've pulled out of your ass is an hilarious demonstration on your ignorance of what's there at level 50. Because half of those things are not from there to begin with and the other half you don't really know. The fact you're talking about the Moogle nerf shows you only synched for Hard and not for Extreme. And I would need a hundred of hands to count the amount of times newbies unassumedly queue in on an EX trial from ARR and, unsurprisingly, they wipe the moment they ignore the filled in mentors advice because, for being a braindead cakewalk, sprouts sure are usually clueless to do simple stuff such as "not moving while floor slippery during Shiva Ex" resulting in countless of sprouts touching the wall of "turning into an ice pop". And all roles get the minimum tools needed for each to perform their jobs: role actions, tanks get also the 30% mits and their invulns, healers get at least one GCD, even if WHM's is Bene, and DPS get their base rotation and, save for a notable exception, some more. More than enough to get a grasp on how game plays. And if synched EX runs tell anything is that you can't just plow though every content through brute force, since every single one has a mechanic that ensures wipes if people isn't trying to pay attention to the mechanics. Every. Single. One. And this one is an easy tell for someone who gets them every now and then on mentor roulettes and has to run the sprouts through the mechanics. And, while I won't elaborate much, I could build a strong case on how learning many of the EXes mechanic is useful for future reference, it has no bearing on the current argument.

4) Devs also think healer design is ok and regaled us with this xpac's MSQ. Does the community agree? Not really. So.. yeah, I could wipe my arse with the dev intentions, honestly. The fact the community still walls to wall as far as they can even after the devs tried to impose walls is proof enough to tell you how little dev's opinion on how the game should be played matter.

[VoidsentStatus]

First of all I know how to cycle my mitigations so your idea of me using only reprisal for a wall to wall pull is stupid. Second of all, yes things may happen, people may die, party may wipe. So? What's your point? None of that affects the number of buttons you have nor their cooldowns. Do you even know how to cycle your mitigations? And none of this justifies YPYT either so all of this crap is completely pointless.

1) You're the one that said order didn't matter. Now you're backpeddling out of that opinion when there's a blatant death situation for the wrong decision of order.

2) If you died, that means you failed to understand the ability of your kit as well as your group's. If you don't have analytical skills for what you can and can't handle and have variance available in your playstyle, you're not a good player. Either you:
A) only do what you're told by someone else who likely didn't want to bother you with nuance and detail for your sake and theirs
B) you're brain off and don't care about dying and would do the same dead-pending pull over and over again with no adjustment
or
C) pull a BLM saying "healer adjust" and likely get kicked.

3) Clearly I know how to mitigate cooldowns if I gave an example off the top of my head for a mitigation situation that would result in a death that you didn't consider previously. Stone Vigil is just one tank check instance. Aurum Vale, Bardam's Mettle, Dohn Mheg, Mt. Gulg will all severely punish a tank that doesn't know what they're doing while trying to run wall to wall if they don't have a good healer carrying them. I could tell you never tried to teach a new tank how to do pulls, how to rotate mitigation, how to push themselves in a safe way without wiping the group. No tank mentor would mention only doing wall to wall pulls with the same mitigation rotation every single run unless there were drastic restrictions such as last expansion dungeons only with competent healers and dps's. There's always stipulations and context.

and that is why:

4) Your opinion on YPYT is invalid. If you are a Trust NPC because that's how your friends taught you to be, you don't get to speak on things that affect the enjoyment of the game from other tanks who are trying to optimize or are trying not to get yelled at/deal with anxiety/or feeling like a nuisance to their party. You weren't taught various things or didn't experience them. And you don't care about other people's experiences. You come off as a male version of Wuk Lamat, letting everyone else do the actual work while you do the bare minimum of just being around and hitting buttons to think you're contributing and getting achievements so you think everything you're doing is working. When in reality, you're still just as naive as when you started, but because you got a few pats on the back, you think your opinion matters and you're ready to lead and have discussions about community expectations.

[BokoToloko]

Your rotation when you're a WAR with raw intuition that can full health you on adds, is night and day compared to other tanks.
Your rotation as a DRK where you have an entire physical damage mitigation missing inside of your kit, is night and day compared to other tanks.
When certain jobs you queue with only have single target and don't have aoe in their kit yet, it is night and day compared to other runs.
When you don't have a WHM Cure 2 healing you for 60% of your health in 1 cast anymore, it is night and day compared to other runs.
I'm not fixing to play this game and list out every night and day in dungeon runs that happens.

Like I said. If a Rank 1 tank, who has cleared every ultimate says he can't braindead rotate mitigation in pugs without dying, I'm not having this talk with randoms on the forums if you're not putting money up.

It's not night and day because it's still easy and very forgiving compared to what. And if it feels so daunting for you I'll break it for ya: it's pretty much your own problem. It's funny you accuse me of this kind of fallacy yet you also recur to uit.

Go run Stone Vigil as a GNB with a sprout WHM using Cure 1 and do the first wall to wall pull with Reprisal first, and then Arm's Length and come back to me.

Easy peasy. Just make sure the WHM uses cure 2. Either the sprout you get does it or, should the sprout be too cool to take advice, the next healer you get. I've had more than my fair share of deadweight. Enabling their behaviour is NEVER worth it.

[AlaineIV]

Lol the YTYP mentality is kinda wild. It literally only takes 1 to 2 gcd's to take aggro, and a good dps will bring mobs to the tanks if they do pull ahead. There is nothing wrong with a dps/healer starting the wall to wall pulls as long as mobs are brought to the tank. It does suck as a tank to chase other people. As long as you move with them as the tank and aoe while moving, you can pull aggro. Specially with the aggro changes they recently did. If you get to the end of the wall and the dps is running around like a headless chicken then let them die for being dumb not bringing you the add.

[VoidsentStatus]

.

1) And slowly, all of those are being phased into Non-MMO situations. Where you don't have to deal with multiplayer content. Which means, once more, you are not forced to learn anything near of what the community expects of you.

2) Let me put you out of your misery. The devs are the one's that have the community on a leash. They are the one's that determine job changes, content design, the one's that even allow you to attempt to wall to wall pulls. And going against dev decisions, is how you end up breaking ToS and getting banned from the game. Going against the playerbase is not going to get your account wiped out. Half of you have an ego because you haven't played a game before where the devs actually abused their authority and trashed every playstyle and mechanic that you cared about, repeatedly, for a decade. If you don't plan to unsub in mass, your opinion is irrelevant which is why we're in a Healer Strike right now as is.

3) *skips first half of assumptions* "all roles get the minimum tools needed to perform their job". Exactly. The Minimum. Minimum =/ Core Kit.
DRK = missing Blackest Night, core to their mitigation rotation
PLD = missing Clemency which was a massive game-changer in completing content with job utility, as well as every ability that's a group mitigation or damage transfer
GNB = no combos at 50
WAR = no raw intuition, core to their mitigation rotation

People have complained for years that jobs do not play anywhere near the same throughout the various levels, even at 50. And Yoshi-P has even mentioned that they've thought about how to address this.

As for GNB:
"what your mitigations are" -> reading a description is different than forcing you to rotate cooldowns as a success condition
"to activate your stance" -> you mean the button you hit 1 time at the start of the instance and never use again? such an amazing tutorial feature
"use your combo" -> Did it teach you how to allign it with your damage buff? Did it teach you how to sync it with your other long damage ogcd and gcd combos such as SB, DZ, RD? Did it teach you how to move the boss while doing combos? Did it teach you how to use mitigation in the middle of the combos? Did it teach you that you could break your combo with other actions and still keep the proc actives? Did it teach you 3 target vs 2 target damage rotation numbers? When you unlocked Bloodfest, did it teach you your entire burst window with reset'ing the cartridge count or teach you a sped up opener?

No. They taught you how to push a button that lit up one time, and another button that lights up after you push the same button 3 times and none of the complications and intricacies that come with it being played in a normal manner.

4) "as far as they can" That's the copium. Try as you might, you're not important :3

[VoidsentStatus]

Easy peasy. Just make sure the WHM uses cure 2. Either the sprout you get does it or, should the sprout be too cool to take advice, the next healer you get. I've had more than my fair share of deadweight. Enabling their behaviour is NEVER worth it.

I like how you conveniently left out what you'd do if the sprout didn't take the advice. Either you'd have to not do the wall to wall pull (and prove my point) or leave instance immediately <5min in (which is considered toxic behavior).

[GTK0HLK]

Recently saw one last night in The 97 "Vanguard" Dungeon from a Paladin.

Me and the Healer basically are used to the pace basically everyone does.
(we all basically strangers)

They didn't speak up at the start, and the other dps didn't say anything(Their first time in DNG)

At some point the Tank said something along the lines of:
"Are you in a rush?"

I felt the ypyt coming, but I didn't message anything yet. So decided not to send a single "?"

But the Healer did it for me.

They then proceed to pull the oldest most stale line by all YouPullYouTank-ers ever.
"If you want to "pull" queue as tank"
(paraphrasing btw. it's been abit, and I'm not gonna dig up what it all said. I only screenshoted it, incase they tried to abuse reports. <Though mostly, cause I send in fair and earned reports of others who actually cause Real BS. so just incase someone does so with Malice. I'm ready>)

In which case it hit to everyone that this, This Paladin, giving all good paladins out there - a bad name, is YPYTing at that moment.

The most I did, is state "Ah, a ypyt"

They then started to single pull, and try to be "passively-agressively slow in their mob pull".

I forget what the Healer said. but it wasn't anything combative or serious.

Though I probably was alil mean, and joking with the Paladin by saying.

"Sorry, we were in Autopilot, LOL"
[If they understood, the joke, and also the irony placed at their feet. IDK.]

Least it was silent and calm throughout the last part of the dungeon.

The other dps DCED after the final SnekBoss Pull.

And they came back for the final part of the second Phase. so I'm glad they got to finish the final boss after DCING on the first part of said boss.

Commd the Healer, and left. (Though not solely cause the situation. but cause they had to burn more of their kit with the slow tank, and a missing dps on the boss. Due to unfortunate DC. Though they didn't need to heal much, as the tank was the only one Getting damaged. They can at least do that.)