You pull you tank question.

[GTK0HLK]

Recently saw one last night in The 97 "Vanguard" Dungeon from a Paladin.

Me and the Healer basically are used to the pace basically everyone does.
(we all basically strangers)

They didn't speak up at the start, and the other dps didn't say anything(Their first time in DNG)

At some point the Tank said something along the lines of:
"Are you in a rush?"

I felt the ypyt coming, but I didn't message anything yet. So decided not to send a single "?"

But the Healer did it for me.

They then proceed to pull the oldest most stale line by all YouPullYouTank-ers ever.
"If you want to "pull" queue as tank"
(paraphrasing btw. it's been abit, and I'm not gonna dig up what it all said. I only screenshoted it, incase they tried to abuse reports. <Though mostly, cause I send in fair and earned reports of others who actually cause Real BS. so just incase someone does so with Malice. I'm ready>)

In which case it hit to everyone that this, This Paladin, giving all good paladins out there - a bad name, is YPYTing at that moment.

The most I did, is state "Ah, a ypyt"

They then started to single pull, and try to be "passively-agressively slow in their mob pull".

I forget what the Healer said. but it wasn't anything combative or serious.

Though I probably was alil mean, and joking with the Paladin by saying.

"Sorry, we were in Autopilot, LOL"
[If they understood, the joke, and also the irony placed at their feet. IDK.]

Least it was silent and calm throughout the last part of the dungeon.

The other dps DCED after the final SnekBoss Pull.

And they came back for the final part of the second Phase. so I'm glad they got to finish the final boss after DCING on the first part of said boss.

Commd the Healer, and left. (Though not solely cause the situation. but cause they had to burn more of their kit with the slow tank, and a missing dps on the boss. Due to unfortunate DC. Though they didn't need to heal much, as the tank was the only one Getting damaged. They can at least do that.)

[bp_isa_ff]

This discourse is open and shut: It's against ToS, rightfully, no exceptions listed. Therefore if you subscribe to the mindset you're *objectively* in the wrong no matter the context.

To any YPYT who earnestly believes it is their right to act in such a way: Take that up with SE, not your fellow player. We're not the ones who made your "play style" bannable.

[VoidsentStatus]

This discourse is open and shut: It's against ToS, rightfully, no exceptions listed. Therefore if you subscribe to the mindset you're *objectively* in the wrong no matter the context.

To any YPYT who earnestly believes it is their right to act in such a way: Take that up with SE, not your fellow player. We're not the ones who made your "play style" bannable.

It's not bannable. I still don't know who even told people this lie. When you look at the link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

1)
"・Expressions that compel a playing style"
"It is prohibited to make statements such as:
"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!""

They specifically say that trying to get a player to mass pull is against ToS.

2) ・Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players **or interfere with gameplay.**
If you adding extra damage in stress to a player that doesn't want it, you are interfering with their gameplay.

3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or **obstructing another person's gameplay.**

You have 3 violations possible based on pulling adds and bringing them to a tank that doesn't want them. Meanwhile the only defense is:
・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior

Which apparently, noone read the drop down menu to read:
"From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately."

Aka, if a tank wants to solo target aggro through a dungeon, that is his right. You don't get to dictate how he pulls unless it forces you to die for reasons you didn't create. A tank doesn't have to cooperate with anyone else in the group. SQUARE ENIX EXPLICITY SAYS THEY DO NOT.
YPYT is asserting the rights the developers actually gave you.

[Merrigan]

I don't know whether it's me who has a radically different experience from the others or not, but just to hammer home the point: the dps I saw pull when I was a tank were systematically bad dps. No group buff, a pretty lousy dps, no check on the cd def used by the tank... And a danger to the group, because like a lot of tanks when I slow down there's a reason. I've been playing for a while now, and after the time when I was very new and going fast was an adaptation problem, I've never once seen a dps pull in a useful way.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

It's not bannable. I still don't know who even told people this lie. When you look at the link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216
3) ◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or **obstructing another person's gameplay.**

This literally describes YPYT, refusing to draw aggro so the monster kills another player,

the rest of it is about not being rude in case they just genuinely don't know they can pull larger or shaming players because they won't do giga-pulls like the first Snowcloak pull, Stone Vigil into the boss arena pulls, or Mt Gulg. YPYT isn't being a low skill player, it's a tantrum.

[VoidsentStatus]

This literally describes YPYT, refusing to draw aggro so the monster kills another player,

the rest of it is about not being rude in case they just genuinely don't know they can pull larger or shaming players because they won't do giga-pulls like the first Snowcloak pull, Stone Vigil into the boss arena pulls, or Mt Gulg. YPYT isn't being a low skill player, it's a tantrum.

"sending" is not the same as "refusing to grab". To a GM, you committed suicide. You grabbed the add to begin with. A tank's job is not to save you from every mistake you could make. You created the problem. And if you go to other games, that concept isn't even a thing. If you tried to pull ahead of a tank on my old game, you would've gotten killed before you even reached the tank because the adds have ranged attacks and lunges, and in higher content will flat out 2shot you. You're not allowed to even try that concept without using the equivalent of a limit break to try to survive while getting back to the group.

[AlaineIV]

With how aggro/emity works in this game.. If you're salty a dps pulled ahead of you, you should stop tanking. Literally 1 or 2 aoe gcd's keeps aggro now. It takes 3 boss auto's at 2.5gcd to kill a dps maybe 4 to 5 if dps uses a defensive. So as a tank literally 1 to 2 single target abilities will take aggro on a boss. Tanking has become considerably easier throughout the years. Letting a dps pull ahead and bring the add's to you speeds up the dungeon. The faster you get the dungeon done the faster you are at grinding. If you don't like dps pulling ahead of you, there are trust where NPC's hold your hand for you.

[VoidsentStatus]

With how aggro/emity works in this game.. If you're salty a dps pulled ahead of you, you should stop tanking.

This isn't the point of YPYT. The ease of enmity is irrelevant. It's about the dps getting the party killed half the time because they added stress that the tank and healer couldn't handle. Every YPYT person has been killed by a DPS or healer before thinking they knew best when they were ignorant and had something they didn't realize. And it makes us hate every person that does that going forward because you are a pending nuisance. A tank's job is not to run up and gain aggro on every add and just spam aoe mindlessly while hitting random cooldown buttons. It is to LIVE first and foremost.

We don't want a DPS trying to say "we know best, we know what you can handle", when that has gotten groups wiped in the past. Clearly, as a whole, that role doesn't actually know what people can handle. They know what people are /supposed/ to be able to handle, but not what they actually are. That's why when a wipe happens, they pikachu face and have to ask what happened or apologize. Healers are the only people that should be speaking with a tank about pull decisions and even then, it's a consideration because depending on the content level, the tank is going to have more information than the healer even about whether a pull is possible. I've had times as a healer myself, and times I witnessed other healers give assurance to a tank, "you can full pull, I got you, don't worry" despite the tank being new. And sometimes you carry them through. Other times, I look up and the tank hasn't been taught how to mitigate properly, they don't use invul's, no1 told the tank about Arm's Length & Reprisal so it wasn't even on their hotbar,they're getting hit by aoe cone's due to lagging and end taking more damage than I expected, I see dps's getting hit by aoe's trying to greed for damage and not using bloodbath to heal back part of that suicide positioning and forcing me to use AoE heals I didn't have planned, etc. to where either I have to sweat to save them, or they end up dying still because there were things I did not know. A tank's job is not to get through content asap, a tank's job (along with a healer's) is to get through content as smoothly as possible. And wall pulling blindly in every situation is not smooth consistently.

DPS's playing russian roulette, running off in Narnia and try to make it back before dying is not smooth. The only thing I hate more as a healer than a tank sprinting off and getting out of healing range and forcing me to burst them up from an inch of health because they wanted to LoS or sprint while mine was on cooldown, is a DPS doing it because I have to burn more cooldowns or stronger cooldowns, swiftcast, etc. to save their stupidity and squishiness that should've been meant for the tank. Most DPS's can't pull smoothly consistently without being a minor irritation in the process.

[AlaineIV]

Every YPYT person has been killed by a DPS or healer before thinking they knew best when they were ignorant and had something they didn't realize. And it makes us hate every person that does that going forward because you are a pending nuisance. A tank's job is not to run up and gain aggro on every add and just spam aoe mindlessly while hitting random cooldown buttons. It is to LIVE first and foremost.

DPS's playing russian roulette, running off in Narnia and try to make it back before dying is not smooth. The only thing I hate more as a healer than a tank sprinting off and getting out of healing range and forcing me to burst them up from an inch of health because they wanted to LoS or sprint while mine was on cooldown, is a DPS doing it because I have to burn more cooldowns or stronger cooldowns, swiftcast, etc. to save their stupidity and squishiness that should've been meant for the tank. Most DPS's can't pull smoothly consistently without being a minor irritation in the process.

Ive done dungeons without tanks doing wall to wall pulls. Guess it is the mind set. YPYT mind set is literally such a weak excuse with all the tools everyone has. The game even gives TOOL TIPS on abilities. They gave tanks extra mitigation. The game shouldn't have to learn for you as a player. Reprisal being an aoe, arm's length slowing mobs when it hits. It's all in the tool tip description. /

As a dps, hitting arms length is a form of miitgation as it slows the add, bring them to the tank, they have blood bath and second wind, some melee's even have their own class specific dcd. Casters have sleep (yes it actually works on dungeon mobs). Physical Range have arms length. WHM has a Stun, dash, SCH has Expedience with 10% mit and SPEEEEEED. There isn't a valid excuse here. The excuse can't be "I need the game to learn for me."

Most dps that pull ahead usually do bring the mobs to tanks. I do it as a dps, if I die i just respawn and run back and continue to kill. THere is a limit to YPYT pride cause even they want to finish the dungeon.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

You grabbed the add to begin with. A tank's job is not to save you from every mistake you could make.

"a tank serves as the party's shield." - Lodestone job guide.

If a tank's job isn't to grab aggro genuinely what is their job. We're not playing other games either, we're playing FFXIV Online: A Realm Reborn in the year 2024. They just got an enmity increase on their AoE and have had an enmity increase on their ranged attack for a while so they can grab aggro off the DPS even though that apparently isn't their job, weird.