You pull you tank question.

[Bhearil]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

Like it or not tanks and healers are being quite scarce and no one gains anything by pissing them off or just making them to give up the role to join the already bloated dps files

Its ok when someone grabs a mob that the tank missed or gather the next group for the tank DEPENDING on the context, but the reaction of "you pull, you tank" is caused most of the time because it happens on a constant basis and it eventually starts to rub on people's nerves. And I might remark that a tank going slow is a sin for some but having dps that deal as much damage as a tank/healer is okay and you just have to cope with it until the dungeon ends

Your solution to kick the tank instead of speaking to them is basically stupid, you remain with no tank while the tank instantly gets another group that hopefully dont turn their role into a job or just being jerks about it. Be right or wrong you will always lose more than the tank/healer that is kicked unless they are so downright horrible at their role that a 3 man team can do it better than letting them remain. And once again often I see horrible(not bad, I mean AWFUL) dps player and in ten years I can count with one hand the times some of those were kicked out and still have spare fingers and we are not speaking about the horrible tanks that have problems to hold more than a single enemy, but just people that for reasons dont go wall to wall

[TBerry]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

So who are DPS to decide what the tank's role is? Why did Square Enix even bother with Provoke and ranged attacks?
And who decided Tanks shouldn't pull anyway?

It is always the same "arguments".
1) uSe SpRiNt - Sprint is the ONLY tool a tank has to move faster. DPS - even healers now - often have more than one charges of dashing forward ADDITIONAL to Sprint, so it is impossible to outrun them.

I'd like to point out that Tanks do have gap closers.

[Andryl]

When I started tanking or when I discovered new dungeons I remember seeing dps going crazy on pulling new packs or me being rescued from pack A to B without any words and thus, not even understanding what was happening.
Since then, even if I tank pretty well now, I think (point of view) that healers or dps going ahead and pulling adds without any prior notice (communication) are a pain to play with.

Thank you ! I 100% agree with you. Yesterday i was doing a dungeon from DT (the expansion is out for like a month now it's still really recent), DPS sprint accros the first area pulling every single living soul around and running back screaming like a child to the tank and healer to save him. I asked them to not pull, next area, DPS and heal pull everything Wall to Wall and Recue me into the second pack because i was not fast enouth because i was grabing the agro on the first pack. This is infuriating, they were nice enough to kick me tho.

I don't care about WtoW and i don't care about slow dungeon according to healer or dps preferences. But please, respect other people, and communicate, you wanna rush that content like your life depends on it ? Ask for it and see if the whole team is cool, the only result will be 4 players super motivated to clear as fast as possible.

I have the feeling that the YPYT problem is coming from a lack of resistance in the smallest inconviniences in the game, the tank is slower than me ? He's bad, he needs to adjust to me. He is not taking care of the mobs i pulled ? It's not my fault i'm the victim, report tank.

I love tanking since 1.0 and ARR and thank god those namazu size brain fart are a really small part of the community and the black list is doing a great job avoiding them.

We all need, as a community, to be careful not to fall into the Wow community stereotype 'git gud or get reported'. We have an awesome game populated with awesome people. Let's try to communicate and respect each other, it will only result in a more happy and relaxed playstyle.

[shigaisen]

If someone else is pulling things a head of me, it's clear I'm not moving as fast as I should be. If someone dies because I failed to get aggro, that's on me. If I die overpulling, that's on me. Granted, I love seeing how much punishment I can take as a tank, so I'm usually gunning to the wall anyway.

This is just how I play, though.
Side note: Apologies goes out to any healer I may have stressed out from my shenanigans.

[Prestoalto]

as a tank, i like to lead my group with a tempo, make sure my pulls are as good as possible, and have a good enmity. on the other hand, i don't appreciate DPSs who get ahead of the tank, to get to the mobs, because i don't go fast enough... to gain what in the end, 1 or 2 minutes... for me, you pull, you tank. no pity for this type of DPS.

[Bhearil]

Thank you ! I 100% agree with you. Yesterday i was doing a dungeon from DT (the expansion is out for like a month now it's still really recent), DPS sprint accros the first area pulling every single living soul around and running back screaming like a child to the tank and healer to save him. I asked them to not pull, next area, DPS and heal pull everything Wall to Wall and Recue me into the second pack because i was not fast enouth because i was grabing the agro on the first pack. This is infuriating, they were nice enough to kick me tho.

I don't care about WtoW and i don't care about slow dungeon according to healer or dps preferences. But please, respect other people, and communicate, you wanna rush that content like your life depends on it ? Ask for it and see if the whole team is cool, the only result will be 4 players super motivated to clear as fast as possible.

I have the feeling that the YPYT problem is coming from a lack of resistance in the smallest inconviniences in the game, the tank is slower than me ? He's bad, he needs to adjust to me. He is not taking care of the mobs i pulled ? It's not my fault i'm the victim, report tank.

I love tanking since 1.0 and ARR and thank god those namazu size brain fart are a really small part of the community and the black list is doing a great job avoiding them.

We all need, as a community, to be careful not to fall into the Wow community stereotype 'git gud or get reported'. We have an awesome game populated with awesome people. Let's try to communicate and respect each other, it will only result in a more happy and relaxed playstyle.

I wonder how many of those DPS who call the tanks crybabies, childish and similar would say if tanks and healers started kicking dps whenever they underperform below optimal standards...

And before someone starts saying that would be parsing and therefore ilegal a person can just take notes of how long the mobs take to die and kick the one the lowest on the aggro meter and the "differences in gameplay" reason still exists.

You dont want to go that slippery hole and theres already some signs since a few years ago of "my rules are your rules but your rules arent mine" kind of behaviour

[Vahlnir]

If a Mob is chasing you, just stop attacking it and run over to the tank, and they will naturally take aggro from it. This is not rocket science.
While its not hard to pick up trash in the initial engagement if you just mash ranged attacks, it IS VERY hard to do that if a Pictomancer decides to use the funny hammer attack to open or a Summoner decided to immediately summon Bahamut.
That said, none of this is going to be a problem after the patch tonight when Tank AoEs will generate more enmity.

Yep. If I pull something off a tank (happens with SMN a lot, actually lol Though I do tend to save my actual summons for when the party comes to a stop) I try to stand with the tank until they get its attention back. That has always been the best way to handle it, in my opinion. If someone pulls something off of me, I'll provoke or use my ranged attack to get it off of them, but if they decide to turn tail and head back down the corridor, I'm not chasing them too far, especially since I've probably got over a dozen enemies on my plate already and the rest of the party is there. It's a case of "help me help you". It's kinda like when someone runs away from a group with their stack marker. Not much you can do but watch them go.

[TBerry]

Yep. If I pull something off a tank (happens with SMN a lot, actually lol Though I do tend to save my actual summons for when the party comes to a stop) I try to stand with the tank until they get its attention back. That has always been the best way to handle it, in my opinion. If someone pulls something off of me, I'll provoke or use my ranged attack to get it off of them, but if they decide to turn tail and head back down the corridor, I'm not chasing them too far, especially since I've probably got over a dozen enemies on my plate already and the rest of the party is there. It's a case of "help me help you". It's kinda like when someone runs away from a group with their stack marker. Not much you can do but watch them go.

Yeah no, if you accidentally gain emnity, you should definitely run to the tank to get it off of you.

[Raven2014]

I asked them to not pull, next area, DPS and heal pull everything Wall to Wall and Recue me into the second pack because i was not fast enouth because i was grabing the agro on the first pack. This is infuriating, they were nice enough to kick me tho.

Well, not saying I gonna do the same to you as the people you had, but I can explain why it's happening to you.

- You shouldn't try to grab agro on the first pack if it causes you to stop running.

- Pop print pre-pull, run into the first pack, do one AOE and keep running to the next pack. You can try to range attack the stray as you run if you feel like it, but even that is not really needed.

- It doesn't matter if you didn't get all the mobs or if the DPS pulling off you. This is not WoW, a stray mobs or two ain't gonna one hit non-tank.

- You can stop once you at the last pack, at this point the other players will pile on you and you can peel the mobs off them.


This is pretty much just standard DF run, and because of that most people just gonna do it a lot of time out of muscle memory, myself included. I usually also pop sprint and start running with the tank and I don't stop because I also assume the tank won't stop. But once a bluemoon (maybe 1/10 times) the tank stop because they thought they need to gather the mob first, I usually catch myself in time before I pulled the next pack and just go back to where the tank is. So again, I'm not gonna be one of those people who pulled than scream at you, but ngl, it's always a bit bemusing seeing a tank stop and do 4-5 GCD to gather the mob. It's just ... not necessary.


So just treat what I said as an advise. The people who want to speed run ain't gonna be mad at the tank because of a few temporary stray mob when the group is running, as long as the tank peel off them once the group hit the wall. It's just kinda like an unwritten agreement.

[Aurelius2625]

I want to help you out man, as a tank that has mained tank since late Heavensward: Creator tier on literally all of the tanks. So, as far as mitigation goes you have Arm's Length and Reprisal as well, don't forget that they also exist. Reprisal is a powerful 10s duration, 60s CD (so up for every pull) aoe mitigation. It lowers damage by 10 percent, so it stacks perfectly with all other mitigation. You should make good use of it. Have only one CD running at a time, unless it's something like Reprisal and a tank cooldown, or Arm's Length and a weaker or shorter CD. You will eventually get TBN: which is a 25 percent shield based on your own HP. You should always, always use this on CD when it's available and ideally, with something else for mitigation as it makes TBN stronger since it takes longer to pop it. Always bank 3k mana while pulling, and never go below it, so that you can always pop a TBN.

Living Dead was a "meme" and "risky" before, but it's absolutely NOT that way now, whenever you feel like you are getting chewed up, use it. It has 10s to pop and activate, and ONE AoE attack is enough in a pack to top you back to FULL HP and you STILL have the rest of the 10s of pure invuln of where you can't die until it wears off. It's seriously good now. I'd honestly just tell your healer that you intend to use it, so they cna just save CDs and pump DPS on a pull that you know you and the healer might have used a lot on, and then pop something like Arm's Length to slow down the mob's attacks for 10s. Arm's Length slows attacks when enemies hit you. Seriously don't forget to use that.

What i'd suggest in a typical pull, is to start off with a dedicated tank CD, like Rampart and TBN. Then, when Rampart is about to wear off, pop Arm's Length and Reprisal, and another TBN. After that wears off, pop an Oblation and another TBN, etc... The idea is, you want one "dedicated" tank CD, either rampart, Shadow Wall (or the upgraded version at lvl 92) to be ready, or, some short CDs like oblations and TBN with your invuln.

You wait until your CD combo expires before using another one. You don't want the mitigation to be "wasted" like popping Rampart and only getting 5s of the value of the CD. Try to stretch every CD as much as you can.

Another thing is: when the mob pack hits you all at once at the very end of a pull when you are just settling it: make sure you pop the CD 1s before all of the mobs are going to slam into you and auto you at once.

Make sure the mobs are nice and packed as tight as they can be for your melee/ranged to dump CDs into and hit as many of them as possible.