You pull you tank question.

[Angelivia]

Whenever it comes to this topic, I am surprised how many are pointing fingers at the tank.

Your are so quick to quote the rules that the "you pull, you tank" mindset counts as "lethargic behavior" while, at the same time, you are so ready to ignore the fact that repeated and intentional non-tank-pulling is also reportable (if preceded communication failed, of course).

It is always the same "arguments".
1) uSe SpRiNt - Sprint is the ONLY tool a tank has to move faster. DPS - even healers now - often have more than one charges of dashing forward ADDITIONAL to Sprint, so it is impossible to outrun them.

Moreover, DPS pullers are wont to run ahead BEFORE the mob is killed down. With that damage now missing, it takes longer to finish it off. And even if the tank follows suit, the moment the mob gets dissolved from a bundle to a moving line, AOE's won't reach every enemy anymore, casts are uncomfortable to finish (if doable at all) and while it might FEEL faster, because you're on the move, in the end it isn't. So even apart from basic courtesy, it is no real gain whatsoever. Quite the contrary.

Plus, the "refined" way of using Sprint as a tank is to activate it JUST BEFORE reaching the following mob so it lasts not only 20 seconds but also long enough to make it to the next mob. Having to activate it earlier, just because one DPS did so, only results in Sprint wearing off ere the pull is completed, the tank taking avoidable damage and the healer spending resources that could have been saved up.

Why making this a race in the first place? It is unnecessarily stressful.

2) iT's So EaSy To TaKe BaCk AgGrO - This is beside the point. This isn't about how easy it is to regain enmity, it's about decency. Organisation. Every role has its part to play, so let them. A DPS hitting one enemy, they automatically get targeted by ALL other enemies. And yes, while it USUALLY takes only one strike for the tank to be main target again, due to the slow reaction time of mobs, they spread all over the room and the tank's AOE's don't have infinite radius. So it might take more than one hit.

Apart from that, the chaotic positioning only results in - again - everyone doing less damage and the whole encounter taking more time.

Furthermore, that every tank's ability to gain and to maintain enmity got easier over the time only shows that people never learned to behave the proper way, so the only solution in the end was to change the system, because players couldn't. If anything, that's a sad testament. Not a valid counter-argument.

3) There's a reason why tanks are setting the pace - maybe the healer is new/slower or the damage is lower and I have to use up all my cooldowns. The next pull isn't going to be wall to wall, then or I'm risking a wipe.

(1/2) Continues on second post due to length restrictions.

[Angelivia]

(2/2) Continuation of previous post.

That being said, we could save the most time by not arguing and not dying in the first place. And at the end of the day, a dungeon run is a group effort, so why not making it as chill and smooth as possible (and ultimately, even FASTER) instead of ruining anyone's experience?

Last but not least this discussion is nice and all but it would imply that every DPS had a special reason to pull, either to make it faster (which they don't) or because they're under the misconception of helping (which could easily be clarified by a short exchange). While that might be true in SOME cases, it's disregarding the sad truth that some just think it funny going on everyone's nerves and they know they can't be vote dismissed during combat, so they dash from mob to mob, from boss to boss because they seem to have no other joy in life.

As a tank, I personally abide by SE's rules, so I will still do my job even if I don't agree with DPS pullers and even if they don't listen to any pleas to stop. Still, I'm not very fond of the idea that I'm having to wait until after the encounter to file a report (I repeat, non-tank-pulling is also inappropriate and problematic for several reasons) and that one impatient idiot gets to decide how three other people are experiencing their dungeon/raid/roulette. This is extremely frustrating.

On another note, there's a whole healer strike going on because - among other reasons - they wish to feel more needed and they have many sympathizers. But a tank being shrugged off as a laughable role and only needed on paper to be able to queue into a dungeon, then gets treated however the rest of the party pleases and having to put up with it without being allowed to take any actions against it and GOD FORBID they're complaining is perfectly fine, yes?

I wonder why we have such a lack of people willing to play tank...

[angelar_]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

[Bhearil]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

Like it or not tanks and healers are being quite scarce and no one gains anything by pissing them off or just making them to give up the role to join the already bloated dps files

Its ok when someone grabs a mob that the tank missed or gather the next group for the tank DEPENDING on the context, but the reaction of "you pull, you tank" is caused most of the time because it happens on a constant basis and it eventually starts to rub on people's nerves. And I might remark that a tank going slow is a sin for some but having dps that deal as much damage as a tank/healer is okay and you just have to cope with it until the dungeon ends

Your solution to kick the tank instead of speaking to them is basically stupid, you remain with no tank while the tank instantly gets another group that hopefully dont turn their role into a job or just being jerks about it. Be right or wrong you will always lose more than the tank/healer that is kicked unless they are so downright horrible at their role that a 3 man team can do it better than letting them remain. And once again often I see horrible(not bad, I mean AWFUL) dps player and in ten years I can count with one hand the times some of those were kicked out and still have spare fingers and we are not speaking about the horrible tanks that have problems to hold more than a single enemy, but just people that for reasons dont go wall to wall

[TBerry]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

So who are DPS to decide what the tank's role is? Why did Square Enix even bother with Provoke and ranged attacks?
And who decided Tanks shouldn't pull anyway?

It is always the same "arguments".
1) uSe SpRiNt - Sprint is the ONLY tool a tank has to move faster. DPS - even healers now - often have more than one charges of dashing forward ADDITIONAL to Sprint, so it is impossible to outrun them.

I'd like to point out that Tanks do have gap closers.