Please fix/tokenize Darklight drops

[Raikki]

This then starts to feel like a 'pay' system... I will get paid 1 token each time I kill Ifrit, and then I can buy a weapon for 10 tokens.... it just feels so.. un-adventerous and more like work. It will also remove the lovely feeling:
YES! YES! I finally got that wonderful beautiful staff I was so wanting! YAAAAAYY!
and replace it with:
Okey, one more run and I can go buy the staff.

I really don't think you understand the situation in the slightest. A points system would remove the "lovely feeling":
"Well there goes 10 hours of my life for nothing... again."
and replace it with:
"I've almost got enough points for ______, I can't wait!"

Of course, you can spin your made up thoughts about content any way you want, but I think this version more accurately reflects reality.

[carraway]

I really don't think you understand the situation in the slightest. A points system would remove the "lovely feeling":
"Well there goes 10 hours of my life for nothing... again."
and replace it with:
"I've almost got enough points for ______, I can't wait!"

Of course, you can spin your made up thoughts about content any way you want, but I think this version more accurately reflects reality.

Yeah, basically. I would definitely appreciate a gradated reward system that weighs the top-end of accomplishment more heavily.

I did some fuzzy napkin math the other day. Considering how few pieces of DL we have versus how many 5-chest clears we've done, the drop rate is especially abysmal -- in the neighborhood now of 2.5%, counting total DL vs total chests. Working hard towards that end goal of getting X, Y, or Z piece of Darklight feels like digging through the lightning sand in the fire swamp.

[Sigmakan]

Yeah, basically. I would definitely appreciate a gradated reward system that weighs the top-end of accomplishment more heavily.

I did some fuzzy napkin math the other day. Considering how few pieces of DL we have versus how many 5-chest clears we've done, the drop rate is especially abysmal -- in the neighborhood now of 0.025%, counting total DL vs total chests. Working hard towards that end goal of getting X, Y, or Z piece of Darklight feels like digging through the lightning sand in the fire swamp.

0.025%? Shit, you guys have terrible luck, or thats a typo. Really hoping thats a typo. 0.025% means you've gotten 1 drop out of 4000 chests (or 800 5-chest runs).

[carraway]

0.025%? Shit, you guys have terrible luck, or thats a typo. Really hoping thats a typo. 0.025% means you've gotten 1 drop out of 4000 chests (or 800 5-chest runs).

Oh shit, haha. I did say it was fuzzy napkin math and I really meant it. Fixed to 2.5%.

[Meatdawg]

Yeah, basically. I would definitely appreciate a gradated reward system that weighs the top-end of accomplishment more heavily.

I did some fuzzy napkin math the other day. Considering how few pieces of DL we have versus how many 5-chest clears we've done, the drop rate is especially abysmal -- in the neighborhood now of 2.5%, counting total DL vs total chests. Working hard towards that end goal of getting X, Y, or Z piece of Darklight feels like digging through the lightning sand in the fire swamp.

We still haven't had a body piece drop for us yet. (No eyepatch either) Easily over 500 kills with the majority being speed runs. No one has completed a set of DL yet and most are still waiting for their 1st/2nd piece to drop.

Nobody wants to do AV/CC anymore because we just all view it as wasting our time.

[Asiaine]

I really don't think you understand the situation in the slightest. A points system would remove the "lovely feeling":
"Well there goes 10 hours of my life for nothing... again."
and replace it with:
"I've almost got enough points for ______, I can't wait!"

Of course, you can spin your made up thoughts about content any way you want, but I think this version more accurately reflects reality.

This may simply be a matter of perspective, so we may very well have two different views (as we are different people).

Some people may say: I spend 10 hours, I want something.. got nothing... bad
Some people may say: I spend 10 hours, I had fun with friends.. got nothing... no biggy

So its not so much of 'made up thoughts' or 'reflects reality' but the fact that different people have a different outlook on life ^.^.

The only thing I am ever trying to suggest here (and I guess I am failing to make it clear) is:
If you are of the mindset that you MUST obtain items and you will keep repeating it till you do, you will forever be wraught with despair and frustration. If you are of the mindset that obtaining items is a minor thing, and simply 'being' with friends is all you want, then you will have happyness and enjoyment.

(At least in the way this world is designed for now).

[Raikki]

This may simply be a matter of perspective, so we may very well have two different views (as we are different people).

Some people may say: I spend 10 hours, I want something.. got nothing... bad
Some people may say: I spend 10 hours, I had fun with friends.. got nothing... no biggy

So its not so much of 'made up thoughts' or 'reflects reality' but the fact that different people have a different outlook on life ^.^.

The only thing I am ever trying to suggest here (and I guess I am failing to make it clear) is:
If you are of the mindset that you MUST obtain items and you will keep repeating it till you do, you will forever be wraught with despair and frustration. If you are of the mindset that obtaining items is a minor thing, and simply 'being' with friends is all you want, then you will have happyness and enjoyment.

(At least in the way this world is designed for now).

Your sunshine and rainbows approach might work just fine for the amount of effort you put into the game. I'm not trying to tell you that you can't feel that way. But the serious raiding playerbase is completely different and I don't think you understand what we're talking about. We thrive on progress. Progress means either the growing strength of our character or at least the ability to make measurable progress toward a goal. We already leveled everything to 50. We already got all our primal weapons. We already HQ'd our accessories and double/triple-melded our gear. We already beat the 5-chest speedrun "challenge". Darklight is the only way for us to progress, and progression is what we're all about. Telling me progression is "optional" is really telling me "well you could just quit the game instead".

I understand SE's desire to prevent Darklight from flooding the game, and that's fine but there are much better ways to accomplish that. The current system of spending ten or more hours a night and making no progress whatsoever is not acceptable.

[Asiaine]

We already leveled everything to 50. We already got all our primal weapons. We already HQ'd our accessories and double/triple-melded our gear. We already beat the 5-chest speedrun "challenge". Darklight is the only way for us to progress, and progression is what we're all about.

If SE popped 10 more primal and 20 more dungeons and 50 more quests, then would you have the same concern about the Darklight drop rate? Would you still focus only on that instead of the other content?

I do not believe the problem is in the low drop rate, but rather, the lack of anything else for you to enjoy doing. In other words:
The only way to progress in this world right now is through a mechanic that requires great tedium and repetitiveness.

Rather than address the 'tedium and repetitviness' I would rather address the 'only way to progress'.

But I would love to hear your feedback on this. Would more content and variety of content and dynamic content that you have not yet come close to completing, that in itself gives rewards and advancement and fullfillment, make you rethink your need to change the drop rate (or tokenize) Darklight equipment?


And yes, I like Sunshine and Rainbows ^.^

[Raikki]

If SE popped 10 more primal and 20 more dungeons and 50 more quests, then would you have the same concern about the Darklight drop rate? Would you still focus only on that instead of the other content?

I do not believe the problem is in the low drop rate, but rather, the lack of anything else for you to enjoy doing. In other words:
The only way to progress in this world right now is through a mechanic that requires great tedium and repetitiveness.

Rather than address the 'tedium and repetitviness' I would rather address the 'only way to progress'.

But I would love to hear your feedback on this. Would more content and variety of content and dynamic content that you have not yet come close to completing, that in itself gives rewards and advancement and fullfillment, make you rethink your need to change the drop rate (or tokenize) Darklight equipment?


And yes, I like Sunshine and Rainbows ^.^

carraway nailed it:

Having more content wouldn't make the Darklight droprate more tolerable, it would just divide our attentions to the point where it would take even longer to finish our Darklight sets.

I would add that the core of the issue is that this game has too much "bite size" content that's farmed over and over and over. I think the original intention was to have something that was not too large a time investment for someone with a short time to play. The problem is, they also decided to balance the drop rates against people who have a lot of time to play. That means people with a short time to play don't have a reasonable chance at getting rewards, and people with a long time to play have to do the same thing an absurd number of times to get their rewards. It's a lose-lose situation.

No content they put into the game is going to be fun and satisfying anymore after doing it hundreds of times. MMO content needs to be fun and rewarding at the same time, not a choice between the two. Right now, we have a mutually exclusive option between doing content while it's fun but not getting any rewards, or grinding the content long past the point it feels like a chore to get the rewards.

[Asiaine]

I would add that the core of the issue is that this game has too much "bite size" content that's farmed over and over and over. I think the original intention was to have something that was not too large a time investment for someone with a short time to play. The problem is, they also decided to balance the drop rates against people who have a lot of time to play. That means people with a short time to play don't have a reasonable chance at getting rewards, and people with a long time to play have to do the same thing an absurd number of times to get their rewards. It's a lose-lose situation.

No content they put into the game is going to be fun and satisfying anymore after doing it hundreds of times. MMO content needs to be fun and rewarding at the same time, not a choice between the two. Right now, we have a mutually exclusive option between doing content while it's fun but not getting any rewards, or grinding the content long past the point it feels like a chore to get the rewards.

I agree with this... and this is what I feel needs to be fixed (not the tokenization/drop rate).

I look forward to a day where the challenges and big NMs I have to fight are so varied and dynamic that there is no 'guide' or pre-recorded 'dance pattern' to beat them.. but only skill, wit, and harmonization with my allies.