Updated benchmark

[Glenfiddich]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I agree with almost everything you wrote.

This where I think differently.

Especially when Au Ra essentially wasn't even touched (outside of umbrals) in the 1.1 Benchmark.

I wish they hadn't touched my Miqo'te at all.

[Plushy]

Excuse the "doomposting", but I don't feel very optimistic about the "future tweaks" at all right now.

Not to make you more sad but they never promised or said they would do future tweaks, only they would fix issues and make adjustments IF "necessary" in future patches.

I think if you try to look at it from SE PoV you might understand the spot their in.

Right now there are 3 groups.
Group 1 - that wants everything reverted back even the imperfects

Group 2 - that want changes in certain areas to look closer to 6.58

Group 3 - that's happy with the changes

No matter what SE does, one of these groups are going to be disappointed.

Group 2 I personally think is the most difficult to please because every last one of them wants only certain things changed.
For example, for simplicity say you wanted the lips to be back to how they were. Well someone else likes the lips but wants the eyes to be back to how they were.
Everybody wants something different and it's just kinda impossible to please everyone, this on top of goal post moving.

For SE it's pretty much leave the characters as is or further change the characters and then disappoint the people that already like the changes and most likely still don't please the people that wanted changes because it's not how they wanted it and at that point SE is left with group 1,2 and 3 not happy and now they'll have even more complaining, with people that liked the updated characters in the same boat as all of you.

Character updates is always difficult because characters are going to look different, it's just a fact. With more polygons, better lighting, shadows and textures the characters would never look 1:1 the same as their 6.58 even if they tried.
(Like imo your new au ra looks pretty much identical to your 6.58 au ra). But to you it looks different.

At this point I think it's better to just either make a new character or just try to get use to your new look in-game where you can dress them up and see them in varied lighting.
I don't see SE making anymore changes to characters other than bug fixes when they have other things to work on for the rest of DT and changing characters in the middle of the expansion is a terrible decision when people might have already gotten use to their look, it always installs a sense of unease if SE is fine with just casually changing peoples characters making people think their characters are never safe with the look you gave them.
The only decision to do is to add more options down the line, not revert years of work.

[Risough]

I'd also like to note that the deepened furrows were not present in the original benchmark.



I hadn't mentioned the first benchmark in my comparisons as it had been deemed a defective product. I feel it is worth noting, however, because I had no opportunity to leave feedback until version 1.1 as opposed to some who had the chance for their feedback to be incorporated after the first benchmark.

[Loggos]

Yeah his face does look a bit older and more weary to me. In the 1.1. version he kind of reminds me of Raubahn.

[faiarrow]

Not to make you more sad but they never promised or said they would do future tweaks, only they would fix issues and make adjustments IF "necessary" in future patches. (...) At this point I think it's better to just either make a new character or just try to get use to your new look in-game where you can dress them up and see them in varied lighting.

I mean this as respectfully as I can given how angry I am, especially having seen your posts get torn apart on the Japanese side of the forums from you sharing a slew of SNS links of people happy with the changes without their permission in a feedback thread just because you're happy with the update, but you do not get to police any of us who are dissatisfied by saying something as bold as 'make a new character'.

Directly from Yoshida himself:

As always, we will remain open to feedback even after the updated benchmark update and Dawntrail have been released, and will also continue to address any issues or necessary adjustments in future patches!

(There is no "IF" in there. Direct quoting is your friend.)

This is the very same man who has told us between two PLLs and a Fanfest:




And in an interview with Real Sound just in March of this year:

「『FF14』ではフォトリアルを目指すのではなく、これまでプレイヤーのみなさんが『新生エオルゼア』から10年間、一緒に歩んできたキャラクターたちの印象が変わらないということを絶対的な前提にしながら、テクスチャの解像度を上げたり、マテリアルのシェーダーを更新したり、全体的な雰囲気としてのグラフィックスアップデートによって「自分のキャラクターが総合的にパワーアップした！」という印象をいかにして持ってもらうか、が大切です。」

"Rather than aiming for photorealism in FF14, the absolute goal is that the impression of player characters, whom many have walked with for the past 10 years since 'A Realm Reborn', will remain the same. By increasing the texture resolutions, updating material shaders, and updating the graphics to create an overall better atmosphere it is important that the players can get the impression that 'my character has been absolutely powered up!'"

We are allowed to be upset. We are allowed to be angry. More importantly, we are allowed to keep sharing feedback as it is what the development team wants.

Rock, hard place, I know, but they honestly could've avoided this if they've been way more upfront and transparent about the work done when making such sweeping statements to a playerbase who have characters they've played upwards of 14 years if they came over from 1.0. It was insulting to hear in the PLL the special attention paid to things like rock textures and placement of rocks when they know that there is a large number of the playerbase upset with the character side of the updates.

[azaleai]

It was insulting to hear in the PLL the special attention paid to things like rock textures and placement of rocks when they know that there is a large number of the playerbase upset with the character side of the updates.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Something about them focusing on the detail in the rock textures that non-artists are probably going to think little more than "oh, cool" about when our faces have literally lost definition got me a little riled up, lol. The textures for the normal map and the diffuse don't even line up on the lips for crying out loud.

There have certainly been some posts in the various feedback threads for tiny differences that I'm fairly sure are simply artifacts of a different lighting system (the complaints surrounding the corners of the mouth are a common culprit) and yes some of them do seem rather... nit-picky. Aaaand then there's femroe face 2, which literally looks unfinished, even ignoring the colour change for the pupils and nose smudge.

But on top of that, people are finding that there's holes between the head and the hair or beards, weird reactions to lighting where beards and eyelashes change colour in shadow when they shouldn't, chunks of hair where the texture density is completely wrong, glaring texture seams for hrothgar, lalafells missing their belly buttons...

I adore this game, I really do. I have over 700 days of playtime racked up on my main, I appreciate the work that goes into it even if I don't agree with every decision... but the graphical update, without a doubt in my mind, is not live game ready. The character side of the graphical update feels incredibly rushed and poorly tested. We are essentially the testers right now, and these feedback forums are our only way of communicating with the devs - if they're even listening.

I'm not expecting them to fix this before the release in 16 days because that's unrealistic as hell (and the poor artists deserve a break), but the least they could do is make another announcement and clearly state which pieces of feedback they intend to address and when. Even if it's just "it'll be something like 7.2 before we can impliment all the fixes, but this is what we've heard needs changing". Because, right now? It feels like a countdown to doomsday where our characters just get deleted and replaced with some alpha build that got slapped together before a lunchbreak and forgotten about. It feels like they're saying "eh, this is close enough".

The most frustrating part to me is. If only I had access to the files for this face - the sculpt, the model, the textures, etc etc - I could fix it in less than a day. That's what makes this feel like a massive slap in the face, like there's a huge we-don't-care sign plastered all over it. This is not "altered as little as possible".

[gatorbait]

I really appreciate the developers releasing a benchmark that allows the players to see the actual changes to their character. Asking for feedback shows concern for each player and their personal feelings regarding the changes.

Any modifications to the feel of the character should be made as part of a character creation update. The fantasia is an excellent gesture, but it is poor comfort to those who feel they cannot match their character with the few options provided. Many of us invest a lot of our time and ourselves in these characters and have played with them for a long time. They need to take care to match the characters as they are now, or people may feel betrayed and leave.

[Plushy]

I mean this as respectfully as I can given how angry I am, especially having seen your posts get torn apart on the Japanese side of the forums from you sharing a slew of SNS links of people happy with the changes without their permission in a feedback thread just because you're happy with the update, but you do not get to police any of us who are dissatisfied by saying something as bold as 'make a new character'.

"Get torn apart"? it was only a single person asking did I ask for permission? Not sure how that means getting "torn apart" ? weird but if that makes you feel better.
I don't think I need permission sharing public information and also someone even disagreed that I need permission and since my post is still up I'm going to assume the mods thought it was fine too so...*shrugs* oh well. Just like what that person said, that just depends on your own personal ethical standard which I doubt you share and you're only feeling this way because you don't like I shared so much positive feedback because it makes you think SE won't do anything now. Its pretty obvious as you and others acted the same way trying their hardest to dismiss it.
Also not sure how you think I'm policing, you might only think that because you're angry and just assuming me sharing positive feedback as an attack.
Should probably calm down and reread my posts. If I was policing I would be dismissing people complains when I'm not. If me saying "make a new character" or "get use to your new look" is policing then I don't know, those are your ONLY choices in this matter, there is nothing else you can do in that situation other than quitting the game.

This is the very same man who has told us between two PLLs and a Fanfest:




And in an interview with Real Sound just in March of this year:

those leave leeway of trying to leave characters the same but he never said they would look 1:1 the same. "Preserving the overall look" which they did, the characters still look the same. Minor or some changes is still possible but the base look will still look the same.
"overall appearance of the player character will be altered as little as possible" same deal, this hints some changes will happen but still keep the overall look which they did do. Au ra's still look like au ra's, viera's still look like viera's, miqo'tes still look like miqo'tes just as yoshi-p put it, powered up.

I never said you couldn't be upset so not sure why you're acting like I said you can't be. You're looking for things to be mad about just so you can yell, feel attacked and feel like a victim and say "You're policing me! we have a right to be angry" when I never said you couldn't be :T.....and I agree they should have been more transparent but I think they did try to change the characters little as possible and in their mind they probably did but the playerbase feels differently. The dev team probably didn't think so many players would care much about the nuances such as -slightly- bigger lips and among other things.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a
"As always, we will remain open to feedback even after the updated benchmark update and Dawntrail have been released, and will also continue to address any issues or necessary adjustments in future patches!"
You're right he didn't say "if" but this line suggests this is for bugs only, not changing characters due to feedback.
Its why they said "necessary adjustments" lots of things people are pointing out isn't really necessary since its a matter of preference.

"Even so, we imagine the subtle differences in nuance will inevitably cause some characters to look ever so slightly different compared to before. Should that be the case, a phial of Fantasia will be obtainable from a new quest that will be added with the release of Patch 7.0, which will allow you to fine-tune your character's appearance."
Just in case you missed this line, this suggests he realizes that there are some small changes compared to the 6.58 model. Which kinda defeats the purpose of clinging onto what he said in the past, he knows there is small changes so repeating bringing up the same argument of "he said they wouldn't change the characters" is moot now that he says this now.

I'm not expecting them to fix this before the release in 16 days because that's unrealistic as hell (and the poor artists deserve a break), but the least they could do is make another announcement and clearly state which pieces of feedback they intend to address and when. Even if it's just "it'll be something like 7.2 before we can impliment all the fixes, but this is what we've heard needs changing".

I'm going to be totally honest. I HIGHLY doubt they're going to change characters in the middle of the expansion. (This on top of there are lots of bugs and weighting issues they have to fix)
Everybody that liked the changes will be the in the same boat as you, people that have warmed up to their new characters will be upset and then on top of that, assuming they did make more changes. Its possible the changes they made won't even please you and others that wanted changes so now everybody is stuck with a character they're not happy with, everybody is upset.
They just can't make big changes at this stage as its too risky and just a overall bad move, the only thing they can do is add more character options in 8.0 or 9.0.

[Iscah]

Because, right now? It feels like a countdown to doomsday where our characters just get deleted and replaced

This is how I'm feeling about it. At best a couple of them are recognisably the same character but with unnecessary changes: the corner of the eye has moved, or makeup has been added to a character who did not and would not wear it.

At worst they feel like the wrong character, or they look ill or half-asleep or staring dreamily into space.

The devs have access to the original character models. Surely they can check back against those and see where they've gone wrong, instead of me staring at screenshots?

But then I also think there is an ongoing problem of interpretation of details of the original models, and I think the updaters have been interpreting certain things in the "wrong" way to how they actually look.

People have noted that some characters had a shadow under the lip interpreted as part of the lip, and I think they're getting the shapes of eyes wrong by adjusting the position of eyelashes.

[Sui-Kune]

text

My dude, you need to learn a little empathy.

People are legit angry about the update not for the sake of it, not to be nitpicky, but because they're passionate and absolutely, truly love this game, and only want to see what's best for it. It's not okay that characters that people have had for upwards of 10-14 years have inexcusable mistakes (some of which are really trivial to fix, like the opacity of hellsguard pupils and nose smudge), which while many were addressed/improved with bench 1.1, there's still many, many more. I even saw a male au ri on the Japanese feedback thread, with a plump tail, have part of it cut off at the end, leaving a visible a cross section.

I know Faiarrow and have for over ten years. They have said to me, point-blank, that they'd even be willing to play through DT msq without fantaing to a femhroth (which is about the same as the death of their character, basically), if we had another check-in from the devs. Something saying they are still listening and working on things, and 'maybe expect something patch 7.x'. Some sort of transparency and timeline from the devs, rather than the sea of anxiety and uncertainty as to whether these changes will go unfixed because 'close enough'.

It's no different than the feedback players back in 1.0 gave when the game was crashing and burning. There were certainly strong words back then, because people LOVE THE GAME. Like I said, they only want to see what's best for it, and for the devs. That sort of passion doesn't come about out of a vacuum.