Updated benchmark

[Cheapshot]

Everyone is so excited about the upgrade characters we are getting across the board, just talking to anyone in-game. Everyone I know feels that way, but I visit the forums and it's like I am in a parallel universe!
I'd really hate if they went back on the Elezen changes, I genuinely hope the dev team won't go back on this.

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

I would be right there with you if they were adding options to the character creator, but they aren’t. They’re replacing options. People being happy to get new features shouldn’t come at the expense of those who have spent years growing attached to what’s already there. I’d like to see them more faithfully replicate the original looks for now, and then start working on expanding the CC so that we can both be happy.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

(I don't know how to not make this accidentally sound hostile... Please read this in the most literal way possible)

Out of genuine curiosity, when you mean "something like this" what exactly are you refering to?
What was it that bothered you in the character creator before that you've been waiting forever for the devs to improve?
When you first heard of the graphical update, what were your expectations?
How were those expectations fulfilled in the benchmark?

It would be great and really helpful if more people could explain in detail why they are satisfied with the changes. "I like it", "I'm excited", "It's so much better" is not really telling us and/or the devs what it is that went in the right direction with this graphical update.
Especially if you're afraid of some things being reverted, it's important to communicate what you would like to keep, I think.

Otherwise it's really just creating a "they love it vs they hate it" situation where we might not even be talking about the same details.

[Odstarva]

(I don't know how to not make this accidentally sound hostile... Please read this in the most literal way possible)

Out of genuine curiosity, when you mean "something like this" what exactly are you refering to?
What was it that bothered you in the character creator before that you've been waiting forever for the devs to improve?
When you first heard of the graphical update, what were your expectations?
How were those expectations fulfilled in the benchmark?

It would be great and really helpful if more people could explain in detail why they are satisfied with the changes. "I like it", "I'm excited", "It's so much better" is not really telling us and/or the devs what it is that went in the right direction with this graphical update.
Especially if you're afraid of some things being reverted, it's important to communicate what you would like to keep, I think.

Otherwise it's really just creating a "they love it vs they hate it" situation where we might not even be talking about the same details.

Well, I don't have an art degree. As a practical example, if you gave me two different dishes of food and I said I prefer one over the other, do I need to be able to tell in what exact way I liked it better for it to be true? I might not understand what seasoning you used or how you cooked it - some things you just like innately, and I could try to go out of my way to explain it and do a poor job of it.


But since you asked, and I am assuming these are good faith questions, I'll try to regardless:

1 - By something like this, I mean a graphical update, new shading, textures, models, etc.
2 - Nothing bothered me, but by the same token I was unsatisfied. Especially when it comes to the way the shadows affect the face and how it looks, how the light reflected poorly in certain cases, on how darker-skinned characters didn't have a skin that looked as natural in certain lighting environments (especially in darker areas).
3 - I didn't first hear of it until they actually showcased it, so I guess I didn't have any expectations. I was positively surprised when I saw it!
4 - See 3. But yes, very satisfied, it looked better in-game (creator and benchmark) than I expected (I especially love how the light shines through the ears and their new textures, and how they softened a lot of the more "jagged" facial features (which really just screamed low poly)).


Again, I'm no 3d artist.
I like the changes across the board. Every character looks a bit different, but then so do people's faces in the real world as they grow and age and so for me that really isn't a huge deal. I empathize with people who do, I just happen to disagree with them on what's important.

I'll take slight changes to my character over time if it means an improved experience, over it staying the same for the sake of comfort.


Lastly, I wouldn't mind at all if they added the new models as just separate choices and allowed people to stick to the old ones if they prefer. That would satisfy both camps, and I'd support that far and above the idea of them going back altogether.

[Iscah]

2 - Nothing bothered me, but by the same token I was unsatisfied. Especially when it comes to the way the shadows affect the face and how it looks, how the light reflected poorly in certain cases, on how darker-skinned characters didn't have a skin that looked as natural in certain lighting environments (especially in darker areas).

The thing is, all of that could have been addressed without altering the shape of the character models. Those things being addressed are not the things that people are complaining against.

Fixing the lighting does not call for lips and noses and eye shapes to be completely changed.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

Well, I don't have an art degree. As a practical example, if you gave me two different dishes of food and I said I prefer one over the other, do I need to be able to tell in what exact way I liked it better for it to be true? I might not understand what seasoning you used or how you cooked it - some things you just like innately, and I could try to go out of my way to explain it and do a poor job of it.

Just to reassure you on that front, you don't need to be an expert on the topic to be able to provide helpful feedback. To follow your food analogy, even if you might not be able to tell exactly what the difference is between the two dishes, maybe you would still be able to convey what makes you prefer one over the other (it's sweeter, it's more flavorful, it has a more interesting texture, it's more colorful, etc).
Even if it's not accurate, it's always good input. I'd actually go so far as to say that feedback from people who do not know anything about the inner workings of the work is the most helpful, because it helps the creator of the work see from a completely external point of view what the impression is.

(As an example, I've shared screenshots of 6.58 and the first benchmark to a friend who doesn't play FFXIV but knows about 3D modeling, and I asked him which one he thought was the "newer, improved" version. He wasn't really sure, but picked 6.58 in the end. This says a lot about the lighting problem that was in the first benchmark.)

It might be harder to understand what exactly makes the person feel that way, but that's something for the creator to figure out, by asking more in-depth questions to the person who gave feedback, preferably. (That's also why I phrased my questions the way I did, to try to get the information I'm looking for out of your impression)

So for example, the feedback I'm getting from you is: you had issues with the lighting until now and how shadows could make the face look unflattering, how dark skin is poorly lit, and how some facial features looked too low poly, and you're happy that this has been improved upon with the graphical update. And you're pleasantly surprised about the translucency of Elezen ears.

Yeah! Me too! I'm happy about that! (I think dark skin could still use a little bit more love though, but we'll see once we get to experience different environments)
I have problems with other things though!

Like Iscah is saying, your feedback does not directly contradict the feedback other people have been providing.
You could smoothen the jagged edges without changing the overall line (it's really just a matter of adding more definition, like using more points to draw the same curve, if that makes more sense).


(and again, to make it clear, I'm not trying to argue against you about anything, I'm only using your comment as an opportunity to make a broader point. So this is not directly targeted towards you, there's no hostility or anything, I just want people to realize this is more nuanced than "I hate it/I love it")

[DynnDiablos]

The thing is, all of that could have been addressed without altering the shape of the character models. Those things being addressed are not the things that people are complaining against.

Fixing the lighting does not call for lips and noses and eye shapes to be completely changed.

They offered many warnings that this would happen. And that no one should expect 1 to 1 in design.

[Dazedu]

Everyone is so excited about the upgrade characters we are getting across the board, just talking to anyone in-game. Everyone I know feels that way, but I visit the forums and it's like I am in a parallel universe!
I'd really hate if they went back on the Elezen changes, I genuinely hope the dev team won't go back on this.

I empathize with folks feeling betrayed with the character changes, I really do, but some of us have been waiting for something like this forever... Don't take it away from us!

I think most people have been waiting for this. Just like now, when they want their characters not to be taken away from them.

[PaulusHamsteru]

Reposting. Please fix my midlander's face. He looks like a different character now :

His eye color is different
His lips are different
His nose is different
His eyebrows are thinner and the color is also different
His face and jaw are rounder

[DynnDiablos]

I think much of what I am seeing on here are now personal preferences, not actual issues. Yoshi P has said multiple times not everyone will be happy - so they are giving Fantasia. They NEVER promised a 1 to 1 update. Character aesthetics would change. I find it funny many folks screaming their character looks totally different and lost their essence - they look basically the same.

End of the day, they need to be focusing on actual broken graphical issues on character models - neck seams, arm seams, hair clipping. NOT you being upset lips are shaped differently or eye shapes are more round. While they will continue to make adjustments, I'd expect once 7.0 drops that is what the characters will look like. They can't make tons of aesthetic tweaks after that because then everyone who was happy with their character would need to continue to purchase fantasia over and over. It's time to just be happy with what you have and move on.

[Irishfae]

I think much of what I am seeing on here are now personal preferences, not actual issues. Yoshi P has said multiple times not everyone will be happy - so they are giving Fantasia. They NEVER promised a 1 to 1 update. Character aesthetics would change. I find it funny many folks screaming their character looks totally different and lost their essence - they look basically the same.

No, but he did say at the LV FF that the graphical update would be done "while preserving the overall look that you know and love"

And that, is not what happened. They redrew the lines of the models, and that, is an issue for many people, especially since it can't be fixed by a fantasia. Maybe the 'general' look has been preserved, but the feel is gone. And for some of us, that is a huge issue, especially after being told that we wouldn't be losing that.