#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

**Evergrey** · 06-17-2024 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bole

You made good points, but the idea of giving every job more agency over its survival is at odds with the trinity. You have to wonder what the job of a “healer” is in the game if someone has so much control over their survival already. If the healer is supposed to be entertained by non-healing tasks (which I do support), you’re moving away from the entire point of the trinity. But we’re currently neither here nor there.

Some tanks have more healing abilities than others. Where do you draw the line?

I think it would be good for a game like FFXIV to reward cooperation. So I am personally against the idea of playstyles where people don’t have to rely on each other. At the moment, the only times people cooperate are during raid buff windows and mitigation checks.

I don't think that the issue is the tanks self heals.
Sure, they can perhaps get tweaked somewhat.
But the main issue is that fights in FFXIV aren't encouraging for healing. Boss fights in particular are scripted and attacks are marked.
In other MMOs a boss hits for a lot more damage, more frequently and a lot more of the special attacks aren't marked out like they are in FFXIV.
FFXIV fights leave little room for errors that would normally end up as wounds a healer would heal up.
A healers toolkit is designed for when a fight struggles, which they more or less can't since everything works as a clockwork.
A clockwork that once players learn the patterns they can avoid anything but room-wide AoEs. ('cept the tank ofc holding the aggro)

In FFXIV when I cleared the first 5 floors of Savage Pandemonium I was ofc thrilled that I made it.
But the feeling was more of a "I actually managed to remember everything in the fight".
Where in other MMOs the thrill was more about personal skills, reaction times and quick thinking during chaotic situations.
FFXIV has none of that when it comes to content, it's all a memory game and pressing buttons in a sequence.

**Evergrey** · 06-17-2024 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't think that the issue is the tanks self heals.
Sure, they can perhaps get tweaked somewhat.
But the main issue is that fights in FFXIV aren't encouraging for healing. Boss fights in particular are scripted and attacks are marked.
In other MMOs a boss hits for a lot more damage, more frequently and a lot more of the special attacks aren't marked out like they are in FFXIV.
FFXIV fights leave little room for errors that would normally end up as wounds a healer would heal up.
A healers toolkit is designed for when a fight struggles, which they more or less can't since everything works as a clockwork.
A clockwork that once players learn the patterns they can avoid anything but room-wide AoEs. ('cept the tank ofc holding the aggro)

In FFXIV when I cleared the first 5 floors of Savage Pandemonium I was ofc thrilled that I made it.
But the feeling was more of a "I actually managed to remember everything in the fight".
Where in other MMOs the thrill was more about personal skills, reaction times and quick thinking during chaotic situations.
FFXIV has none of that when it comes to content, it's all a memory game and pressing buttons in a sequence.

I'm just gonna self-quote here.

A perfect personal example about the "memory game" was during sP3.
for those who knows there's that fire tornado that was a real gatekeep for PF groups, even "enrage" groups kept failing on that.
I had myself never managed to get past it due to group members failing, so finally I got tired of progress and Enrage groups failing, so I lied a little and told that I've seen enrage to a "last day clear" group.
And even though I had never personally gotten past that part, I aced it in that group simply because after all those countless times memorizing the fight through youtube guides I knew everthing from that part and beyond simply by memory of watching.
There was no personal skill or anything involved, simply memory of how it goes and where to stand during specific parts.
FFXIV needs more randomness and room for errors in a fight for healers to have something to heal.

Also good to mention something someone else mentioned, is that most times an error happens its due to 1-shot kill mechanics.
And a lot of times a simple error could leave no room for recovery, even if the healers try.

**Len_** · 06-17-2024 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kazmarek

This is actually one of the statements I stand by. To me, personally, if the choice is between clearing, or wiping and starting over, I'd rather have the clear. The person in question... I think said both healers died? Which is why I said to play better. Because the tanks wouldn't have had to take over if nobody died in the first place. I think it's good that the tanks are able to do that. So if you're dying because you're not doing mechanics correctly, you need to play better. I've died because I didn't do mechanics correctly. The solution was to play better. Telling someone to play better- in this context- is not meant to be a personal attack, it's meant to be an obvious statement.

I said the healers died and the rest of the dps died to raidwide because the tank did nothing to keep them alive. I've seen PLDs solo or duo heal fights when the healers wipe early (I main PLD and its what I always do). When I'm on DPS and healers go down WARs never even try. They're all such great players like you.

**ty_taurus** · 06-17-2024 01:39 PM

I'd like to pivot the conversation.

In regards to tank sustain, that's honestly the concern that matters to me the least. I think it's terrible balancing, but at the end of the day I care significantly more about the job I want to play more than the jobs other people are playing. I know this started with the xeno clear, but I'm also not a fan of how so many people outside the conversation are interpreting it as an issue with dungeons and content, because for me, its the healers themselves.

My gameplay is trash in PVE. The most effective bandaid I can hope to see for Dawntrail to try and rectify this is increasing how often the attacks each healer already has can be used. As long as my DPS gameplay is at least enjoyable, no matter anything else, at least I can enjoy any content I want at a very base level. Now... Long term, whether later in Dawntrail or for 8.0, I also want to see healing get cleaned up, because it's kind of all over the place in a really negative way right now. First of all, it doesn't feel like the healers are getting tools that reflect their own healing styles or that feel particularly special for level 100 either. Even Philosophia which I think is the most thematically on-brand is also effectively just a potent party regen on a 3 minute cooldown with Divine Seal attached. Throughout Dawntrail, I would like to see the development team sit down and consider what the identity of each healer is, and this applies both to healing and to damage.

**DivineP** · 06-17-2024 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Look, I don't have any problem if you just want to express a difference of opinion or priorities vs. other players. Ultimately, that's what we're all going to be doing, since this is a subjective hobby experience, not an objective science (to whatever extent science can manage to be objective).

But if you're going to constantly flip-flop between brazen mockery and shite-posting, and then lecturing people here about "being better" and "doing better" and "holding ourselves to a higher standard", at some point, I feel like the hypocrisy reaches thermal-runaway critical mass.

Now, as for my own decision — I feel like trite apologies are so overdone in modern media that they've become mostly-meaningless, so let me try something more sincere: I acknowledge that extending beyond the boundaries of this thread was likely, objectively, inappropriate, and that you — and others — are within-rights to call me out for that.

However, my reason for doing so was not to try to "hurt" you, but instead to try to demonstrate that you clearly do not appreciate when similar tactics to your own here are used against other issues which matter to you. And further, that you seem to hold contradictory viewpoints solely inside this thread, for what seems to be just the sake of trying to discredit this "movement", as you call it.

So, I supplied outside context in order to frame a general question: If your own viewpoints and "standards" aren't even consistent, then why do you want us to take your stance here seriously? Especially when you have frequently characterised the opinions held by others here as "not worthy of being taken seriously" (to paraphrase).

For example, you claimed to find it upsetting that someone was told "only Savage matters" when you tried to encourage players to perform better in Dungeon content. Yet in this thread, you have repeatedly told people that their opinion doesn't matter because they don't play Savage, and also stated that Dungeon content doesn't matter and is irrelevant to the game.

This is why I struggle to see your presence here as anything other than a calculated tactic to try to leverage the situation to your own benefit — ie, to try to ensure that no one can bring up the possibility of Tank Sustain being reduced without being blocked and redirected by you.

Guys can you just leave it? This conversation is about healers not your own petty squabbles. The more you argue the more traction this gets which is the point of the healer role been invalidated.

**Plasma711** · 06-17-2024 01:52 PM