Sage 7.0 Preliminary Feedback

[ty_taurus]

I'd like these new changes to cement SGE as the heal by dps healer or at least BE the dps healer. Especially better Addersting generation. PLEASE.

I do have a question (or two) for SGE mains though:

• Would you like your DoT(s?) to be your HoT(s)? In that for every tick of damage it heals tank/party?
  
• Would you like Dykrasia(sp) and Phlegma (all your AoE damage really) to be... akin to Bloodwhetting? Where in for every enemy you hit you heal tank/party/Kardia target.

Personally when SGE was announced these were the things I was expecting. Would they be welcomed or unnecessary? Something closer to SGE's idea or a bit too far from the mark?

Also.. I thought Phlegma already was 20s? Or am I thinking of a different skill?

In regards to your questions, I feel like Kardia is already a HOT. Making it so the DOT triggers smaller healing per tic on your Kardia feels redundant with that. And truthfully, I want healing through Kardia to be something I am choosing to do rather than something that is a consequence of performing what I would already otherwise be doing anyway. And I don't really need AOE attacks to trigger per enemy hit either. AOE is an afterthought in this game, so it really doesn't make a difference for what is the focal point of combat anyway, and we really don't need more healing sources right now. In short, those changes are things that are irrelevant to me, I'm sorry to put down your ideas so harshly.

I think to make Sage more focused on Kardia healing, I would rework Addersgall completely. Instead of being blatantly copied from Scholar's Aetherflow, I'd want them to be ways to support Kardia healing. Like Soteria and this new AOE Kardia being Addersgall spenders instead. Make that my primary go-to for healing.

Also, Phlegma is 40 seconds with 2 charges currently. There's no word on if that's changed for Dawntrail at this time. Basically I am proposing cutting the duration/cooldown of the existing DPS tools in half to double their use.

[ASkellington]

In regards to your questions, I feel like Kardia is already a HOT. Making it so the DOT triggers smaller healing per tic on your Kardia feels redundant with that. And truthfully, I want healing through Kardia to be something I am choosing to do rather than something that is a consequence of performing what I would already otherwise be doing anyway. And I don't really need AOE attacks to trigger per enemy hit either. AOE is an afterthought in this game, so it really doesn't make a difference for what is the focal point of combat anyway, and we really don't need more healing sources right now. In short, those changes are things that are irrelevant to me, I'm sorry to put down your ideas so harshly.

I think to make Sage more focused on Kardia healing, I would rework Addersgall completely. Instead of being blatantly copied from Scholar's Aetherflow, I'd want them to be ways to support Kardia healing. Like Soteria and this new AOE Kardia being Addersgall spenders instead. Make that my primary go-to for healing.

Also, Phlegma is 40 seconds with 2 charges currently. There's no word on if that's changed for Dawntrail at this time. Basically I am proposing cutting the duration/cooldown of the existing DPS tools in half to double their use.

Can't say I disagree with it being a choice over "it just happens". I suppose I was wanting more of a Chloromancer type healer, stripping SGE of things like its HoT and Addersgall heals in place of healing by damage play style with buffs/debuffs you'd place on the party/enemy to achieve that.

Making Addersgall interact with Kardia wouldn't be a bad alternative. It'd certainly be more interesting than what it is now. If that's to be the case, what would you propose to in-classly (ew that's a horribly made up word) generate mana? For as crappy as Astrodyne is it IS a class based Lucid Dreaming and I wouldn't say no to seeing more of that (as long as its interactive of course, like ice stance in BLM... kinda, that also feels a bit forced but I digress).

And absolutely reduce Phlegma's cool down. Or... nah just reduce it. I have 0 ideas for Toxicon honestly. In an ideal world it being tied to shields wouldn't be a bad thing, because that would be how SGE "heals". Shield you up to soften the blow so Kardia heals can top you off and you'd gain the DPS abilities to do so. There'd be a point to it. I don't want it to be another Misery (where you use Addersgall to proc one). I'd LIKE to keep shield breaking as AN option to generate it, but I want more ways to do so that rewards the SGE for... something. I'm torn between saying good DPS vs good healing because if I say the latter it stays the same.

Anyway, using GNB as a model for it in some capacity would be nice. Maybe its weaker on the heals (not happening I bet) compared to its peers, but still gets the job done and has a fun rotation to boot.

[ty_taurus]

Making Addersgall interact with Kardia wouldn't be a bad alternative. It'd certainly be more interesting than what it is now. If that's to be the case, what would you propose to in-classly (ew that's a horribly made up word) generate mana? For as crappy as Astrodyne is it IS a class based Lucid Dreaming and I wouldn't say no to seeing more of that (as long as its interactive of course, like ice stance in BLM... kinda, that also feels a bit forced but I digress).

Anyway, using GNB as a model for it in some capacity would be nice. Maybe its weaker on the heals (not happening I bet) compared to its peers, but still gets the job done and has a fun rotation to boot.

An ability that consumes Addersgall to restore MP instead of augmenting your heals is what I'd go for. I also think having a hardcasted MP refresh or flat MP regeneration spell would be a welcome change to all the healers allowing you to control MP rather than adhere to its schedule, which is what Lucid Dreaming enforces. The idea would be that there are more ways to spend large amounts of MP in order to meet your healing requirements while maintaining your DPS momentum. This would require a delicate balance of resource management, and failure to do so would not hurt your ability to heal, but would cost you DPS, and effectively undo that momentum you were building. It allows for MP to actually matter as a resource without threatening players with total failure due to lack of healing.

As for the Gunbreaker model and weaker heals... I think the key factor should be in utility provided. Basically I think every healer should have some unique form of utility that is "theirs." Scholar already has this in expedient, giving you a way to increase the party's room for error when addressing certain types of mechanics. Astrologian also kinda has this with Macrocosmos. While it is a heal, it has the unique quality of being able to bypass Infirmity debuffs. Unfortunately we only saw this matter in exactly one fight, P3S. But I think if infirmity were more commonly utilized, a healer who can bypass that for heal checks is a form of utility. Though truthfully, I feel this type of utility makes more sense on White Mage. If I had it my way, infirmity heal checks would be common, and White Mage can pierce it. As for what I'd give to Astrologian in that case, I really like the idea of Float: a party-wide buff that makes everyone immune to puddle and floor damage. This is also not as commonly needed since many fights don't have these, but if they were more common, this could be a really unique way of letting the party position themselves effectively when dealing with certain mechanics.

As for what that leaves Sage with, I'd make them the Black Mage of the healers in the sense that, they'd offer no form of unique utility like the above examples. They cannot grant a party sprint, make the party immune to floor damage, or pierce infirmity. Instead, their damage output would be a couple steps higher, allowing them to help the party meet enrages a little more easily. Though I want to be clear that the difference in damage should not be as extreme as Black Mage and Red Mage. SE doesn't understand the concept of restraint when it comes to DPS taxes, but if it were balanced properly, each form of utility available to the other healers should feel like a balanced trade-off for that extra damage.

[ASkellington]

As for the Gunbreaker model and weaker heals... I think the key factor should be in utility provided. Basically I think every healer should have some unique form of utility that is "theirs." Scholar already has this in expedient, giving you a way to increase the party's room for error when addressing certain types of mechanics. Astrologian also kinda has this with Macrocosmos. While it is a heal, it has the unique quality of being able to bypass Infirmity debuffs. Unfortunately we only saw this matter in exactly one fight, P3S. But I think if infirmity were more commonly utilized, a healer who can bypass that for heal checks is a form of utility. Though truthfully, I feel this type of utility makes more sense on White Mage. If I had it my way, infirmity heal checks would be common, and White Mage can pierce it. As for what I'd give to Astrologian in that case, I really like the idea of Float: a party-wide buff that makes everyone immune to puddle and floor damage. This is also not as commonly needed since many fights don't have these, but if they were more common, this could be a really unique way of letting the party position themselves effectively when dealing with certain mechanics.

Mmm I don't disagree, but my outlook on healer is more... "they can all heal but do so differently". While the differing utility is nice, as you've mention we barely have fights where they would shine so while nice, I don't think it should be what we're aiming for.

To best explain it, lets use your Macrocosmos example. I don't see it as a utility to bypass a heal check. I see it more as AST is able to heal this better than the other healers in this situation due to how their heal works. And thus, I'd like the other healers to have something similar. (Further, rather than a compile heal I'd like for Macro to be more of a Rewind and perhaps give the compile aspect to WHM's Lily Bell but that gets really messy and diverts from the point).

That said, I do think it'd be nice for us to bring utility like Expedient.

Tangent aside, I agree that SGE could still not bring anything other than DPS. They don't need a party buff (a la Divination/Chain - PLEASE KEEP AOE KARDIA) and I can't say I'd like them to be the supportive healer. That fits WHM and AST a bit more (with SCH also being a bit more damage oriented but not quite as much as SGE).

/shrug

MP idea is above my head. Its something I'd have to play with and may require tweaks depending upon how MP heavy SGE is. Or healers for that matter (cause I assume most of these abilities would cost MP and not CD only which would be a nice change, mana management). And having unique ways of doing so - like Addersgall into MP or Ewer back (SE >> Do it). Perhaps something interesting for Thin Air for WHM and SCH is... above my paygrade. Just something different to SGE (unless it can stay the same, maybe something with Fae Gauge?).

Anyroad, these ideas are a start to a better SGE and hopefully we get that with 8.0.

[ty_taurus]

Mmm I don't disagree, but my outlook on healer is more... "they can all heal but do so differently". While the differing utility is nice, as you've mention we barely have fights where they would shine so while nice, I don't think it should be what we're aiming for.

I do agree with this as well. I think we could absolutely do more to foster a stronger identity for healing styles, but I talk about the utility aspect more because that ultimately pans into the balance of things.

For actual healing styles, I'd like to take a route like this:

White Mage: High potency pure healing with the unique mechanic "Overcure." Where their main methods of healing extend max HP based on a percentage of overhealing (based on the White Mage's max HP).

Scholar: Barrier healing based on one large, singular barrier granted at a time. Bring spells like Adloquium and Succor back into the limelight for Scholar's healing.

Astrologian: HOTs and delayed healing effects. Astro is probably the healer that accomplishes this the most effectively currently.

Sage: Layered barriers, like how Haima and Panhaima work, but granted through DPS spells. Perhaps you apply stacks with one attack, and can use a different attack to trigger those stacks as barriers, and those barriers also restore a little HP when they break.

I think there's just too much overlap being handed out and not enough focus on what healing style best suits each healer.

[ASkellington]

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I'd like the styles tbh. Wishful thinking has me wanting SCH to be barrier based with pet healing to suppliment (not enough to where it can replace them mind you) because I still want a pet heal job but I'll take SCH being an actual barrier healer over nothing.

I think my major concern with the utility is that it relies too much on encounter design and the dev team is horrible at that.

Like a lot of the problems we currently have wouldn't have been a problem if they actually designed fights to where a class within a role can shine in differing ways. Like RDM is good in this raid for X buff, MCH is good in Y raid for X mitigation etc etc so weaknesses and strengths can mean something and blah blah blah.

Float would be nice as a utility, but I can't think of a single fight where just basic movement wouldn't invalidate it. Sure you can make the same arguement for Expedient (and I KNOW its been said already) and I'm sure it has the same problems and the fact that, while yes the party could pop sprint or just move but having the ability to have SCH or AST (or WHM) do it and plan around that is nice and all and I don't want to take that away...

With this dev team I'm personally not wanting to invest in it, if that makes sense.

I don't think I'd argue against it otherwise though.

Anyway, yes to SGE being more of the GNB or SAM or BLM of healers please. They already feel that way in PvP may as well extend it to PvE. AoE Kardia is a nice step, but we can and should have more.