Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[OliviaLugria]

Part of performing well and working together is choosing a job that performs well.

Would I rather all the jobs be equally viable. Sure, but until that happens I think finding a job that suits you and viable in the meta is the best option.

[Mawlzy]

Part of performing well and working together is choosing a job that performs well.

Would I rather all the jobs be equally viable. Sure, but until that happens I think finding a job that suits you and viable in the meta is the best option.

Agreed, but I don't see the relevance. Besides, a premade completely changes the relative value of jobs compared to solo. Job selection is based almost entirely on LB coordination. As I said, this is explicitly stated in your guide. One advantage of playing solo is it makes far more jobs viable.

What is your ultimate goal here? How many premades do you want to see in a typical match? And is there any number of solo players telling you they find playing in matches with a premade to be tedious that might sway you from this messianic mission?

Currently on Aether, would you agree about half the matches contain one premade? If so, that suggests the number of players adopting that playstyle (weighted for volume) is less than 3% of the population. Why should such a tiny fraction of players dictate how the mode is played, particularly when it directly conflicts with the wishes of the majority?

[OliviaLugria]

I don't really care about how many premades are in a match. I want people to coordinate.

I want darks having salt timers and countdowns for when they pull.

I want dancers, warriors and reapers alerting their LBs are ready.

I want the burst jobs to be right behind them ready to go.

I want the Monks, ninjas, and white mages locking down key targets.

People locking their full map open and watching their behinds for pinches.

Tbh, I can't relate to how many people are actually giving up and being defeatist on aether. I can say that those people have probably been on my team, seen my macros, and could do these exact things with or without a premade to similar effect. I don't use voice, I don't use anything outside the game.

Even if you somehow get your wish for a pure solo que. Your complaint will simply change from "the team with the premade" to "the team most willing to act like one."

I don't understand your point about majorities. If 99% of people thought the sun orbits the earth, it doesn't make it true (this is also true in reverse.) It is evidance that dictates truth, and it should be evident that the way premades play is superior for achieving the intended goal of FL (winning.)

It's not like premades are abusing mechanics the designers didn't intend. PVP has always been centered around burst. In feast, in old FL, in CC, and in the current FL. You could perhaps argue it has never been as easy as it is now, but I'm not sure I'd agree.

In any case, it is the mechanics of a game that dicate how it should be played, not the players. The players will need to discover and learn how to utilize those mechanics, but they are going to be there regardless of if players buy into them or not.

[Bonoki]

It sounds like to me what some are looking for is "Ranked Frontlines with rewards" without directly saying it. I guess something like the Crystal Conflict's Bronze - Crystal system could work in Frontlines, albeit not without its flaws.

[OliviaLugria]

Funnily enough, it's already ranked.

[Mawlzy]

I don't understand your point about majorities. If 99% of people thought the sun orbits the earth, it doesn't make it true (this is also true in reverse.) It is evidance that dictates truth, and it should be evident that the way premades play is superior for achieving the intended goal of FL (winning.)

If 97% of players dislike a playstyle, any game developer worth their salt will satisfy them and not a tiny minority who seem hell-bent on imposing their will upon others. Suggesting there is some objectively-correct playstyle through a bizarre analogy with celestial mechanics is pure sophistry.

As to the goal being winning, true but only in a sense. People play games to have fun. If winning involves playing in boring matches, I want no part of it. Playing solo on the team with a premade is boring. I'd far prefer to have a 33% win-rate for perpetuity and actually have something meaningful and enjoyable to do than get carried by a premade.

[Scintilla]

snip

All of which would be ideal and make a very good team. I agree that everyone doing this would make for a highly enjoyable and challenging FL. It can arguably be done with a premade (on a smaller extent), but that doesn't remotely create a 'highly enjoyable or challenging FL' - it just results in one team completely and repeatedly destroying the others, which in turn, pushes more and more players away from FLs and makes that dream of improving player standards and ability in FL less and less likely to happen.


I don't wish for a solo queue, personally, I would prefer it if that wasn't the solution. PvP can be quite daunting to some new players, not least because it sadly has a reputation for being a more toxic and competitive area of many multiplayer games. Some new players might be more willing to join if they could go with a friend or FC member for support.


The evidence they see (over and over and over again) is that coordinated premade teams win by a large margin with their opponents being able to do little to nothing about it.

They see that solo players/random teams lose repeatedly, despite their best efforts.

They see that they themselves are unable to make a difference in stopping premade teams, everything they try doesn't seem to work, and they have no effect on the outcome of the game.


Perhaps it's your own drive to master FLs which gives a slightly tainted perspective. They don't look at technique - how can they? They're dead in seconds before many of them even noticed the danger incoming. These are new or infrequent players.

Those more experienced players who do recognise the danger early and are more aware of the techniques, either managed to escape or got caught via stun/bottleneck/delay etc. (and with a RPR in the premade that means death, Guard or not). If they escaped, great. Now they're alone and able to do nothing solo vs a full BH5 team anyway.
I'm not saying 'go easy on them'. As I said: offer to command, lead the team to a win, demonstrate your success, give advice/teaching wherever you can, encourage them if they want to try commanding or just a new class. Still play a good game, but do it in a way which is common/accessible play to all, by commanding the random alliance - not via a premade which requires friendship-links with frequent FLers and a microphone...
To repeatedly crush them, over and over and over again, using such advantages (experienced friends, voice chat etc.) will only push more and more players away as they lose hope.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but at premades in general.