Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mawlzy]

I am just about out of ideas. I'm not sure how to get others to care about winning without turning the atmosphere tryhard if such an option exist in the first place.

I think the bigger picture is that the current situation encourages churn, and that in itself ensures that the overall skill level doesn't increase. Specifically, new players tend to get driven out by despondency and the miserable experience they have, to be replaced by other new players and the cycle repeats. Meanwhile, many of the more experienced players who enjoy the mode, but who play solo, reduce their participation or quit entirely. In such an environment, the only people who play the mode consistently are members of premades, some of which are asymptoting to skill cap. The average skill cannot rise under those conditions.

[OliviaLugria]

Not sure why I didn't think of this until now. I know that very few people has brought that up. I just don't know when. (I sure feel really dumb now. facepalms)

Instead of reducing rewards why don't some of the rewards be tied to in game performance? No, I'm not talking about win/kill amounts being tied to mounts and titles. I'm talking about experience points being tied to the performance themselves. The additional experience points would be thrown on top of participation and team placement. If you've earned slightly more experience points for killing, healing/shielding, and battle high shut downs, and personal objectives acquired to name a few maybe some will naturally improve by pushing for certain extras. I can't say how much this would help though.

Yes, it has been suggested. It might even be more reasonable to say it could happen if they're trying to make the game "more stressful" or whatever. But unless you know a pvp dev we've reached the logical end of that discussion ;-;

[OliviaLugria]

Focus on what we agree on? We'd like the average skill level to increase. We'll get nowhere if we focus on the speed of improvement, since I think premades are partially responsible for the fact it is stuck in neutral.

I do not understand why we are having to go back to this.

-Premades are a problem*
-They are a problem because the average skill level is to low.
-if the average skill level increased, premades would be less* of a problem.
-the faster the average skill level rises, the faster premades are less of a problem.

Did you not agree with these points?

[Mawlzy]

I do not understand why we are having to go back to this.

-Premades are a problem*
-They are a problem because the average skill level is to low.
-if the average skill level increased, premades would be less* of a problem.
-the faster the average skill level rises, the faster premades are less of a problem.

Did you not agree with these points?

Yes. The problem is your reference to an average player. This may seem like a pedantic point, but to me it's critical. Like the average number of children in a family, in which it is physically impossible to have a non-integer number of children, the "average player" in FL is meaningless because the skill/playstyle distribution is trimodal:

1. Players who don't give a tinker's cuss and will likely never improve.
2. Players who play because they enjoy PvP, and tend to naturally improve, either passively by playing or actively by analyzing the mode and talking to others.
3. Premade members (formed to farm wins, not simply friends playing together). A small minority, almost completely dislocated from the rest of the community.

My position is that, to improve the average skill level, you increase the ratio of players in group 2 relative to group 1 (for example, by reducing rewards so less group 1 players queue), and by eliminating group 3 entirely. I think I've explained the reasons for that more than adequately by now.

[OliviaLugria]

Yes. The problem is your reference to an average player. This may seem like a pedantic point, but to me it's critical. Like the average number of children in a family, in which it is physically impossible to have a non-integer number of children, the "average player" in FL is meaningless because the skill/playstyle distribution is trimodal:

1. Players who don't give a tinker's cuss and will likely never improve.
2. Players who play because they enjoy PvP, and tend to naturally improve, either passively by playing or actively by analyzing the mode and talking to others.
3. Premade members (formed to farm wins, not simply friends playing together). A small minority, almost completely dislocated from the rest of the community.

My position is that, to improve the average skill level, you increase the ratio of players in group 2 relative to group 1 (for example, by reducing rewards so less group 1 players queue), and by eliminating group 3 entirely. I think I've explained the reasons for that more than adequately by now.

You can't even accept that my concern is valid, and I think your solution is inactionable and wouldn't even work, so probably just give up here.

You say my actions are short sighted, that remains to be seen. I've seen more commanders, more communication, and more grouping up in the past few months then my entire 6 years of XIV. I think these things improves the mode, so as long as I'm able to, even if it's not very much, I'm gonna push FL in that direction.

[Mawlzy]

You can't even accept that my concern is valid, and I think your solution is inactionable and wouldn't even work, so probably just give up here.

You say my actions are short sighted, that remains to be seen. I've seen more commanders, more communication, and more grouping up in the past few months then my entire 6 years of XIV. I think these things improves the mode, so as long as I'm able to, even if it's not very much, I'm gonna push FL in that direction.

Agreed, it's clear we have irreconcilable differences on the topic. I remain convinced your actions are damaging the mode. I guess it'd be kinda funny if we're both wrong and the overall quality of play remains pretty much the same. It's possible there's enough inertia in the player base that it is the most probable outcome.

[Mawlzy]

Let me give a specific example of this. There is a common scenario on Onsal that frequently causes annihilation of the NE-spawn team within the first two minutes.

On the first node spawn, an A-rank pops in north cave. NE team is ordered towards it. For many node configurations that include a B on riverside, there's an opportunity for the South-spawn team to pick up that B uncontested, then pinch the NE team at the cave entrance behind as the NE is engaging the third team that has come in from the west.

If you are paying attention to the map, you're immediately aware of this possibility when the nodes pop. Never have I seen an aggressive commander point this out. And those simply following a "D" seem completely oblivious to it. So what happens?

The commander issues a pinch "warning" when half the team is already respawning back at base, because having been ordered around by such commanders they have never developed map awareness, nor the ability to anticipate what might happen in 20 seconds time.

And who is most likely to get wiped out? "Leeches," sure (don't care for that term). But it will also include the inexperienced players, some of whom are simply new and trying out the mode. And they conclude "oh I died again for no apparent reason, despite doing as I was told, what a bloody stupid game."

Assuming that this command style will raise the skill floor is like assuming that an infantry private is going to learn battle strategies and tactics on the battlefield via osmosis. In fact, it's counter-productive.

In the absence of an aggressive commander, I have "pinch danger from 'color'" ready to go in chat when playing from NE and a configuration spawns that can create this mess. In the presence of an aggressive commander, I shutty for fear of getting yelled at for interrupting their performance.

[Patesaupesto]

idk if that is still the case, but that made me INSTANT STOP pvp :
PLD could invuln an ally idk hwo exatcly, and that ally was free to take the objective

[Mawlzy]

idk if that is still the case, but that made me INSTANT STOP pvp :
PLD could invuln an ally idk hwo exatcly, and that ally was free to take the objective

SE fixed that. It was a fairly spectacular screw up on their part.

[Eastwall]

idk if that is still the case, but that made me INSTANT STOP pvp :
PLD could invuln an ally idk hwo exatcly, and that ally was free to take the objective

Yes, it was completely busted. paladin can cover someone, then that person can safely claim the flag in onsal. It got fixed pretty quickly.