I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ty_taurus]

I'm all for it, but the problem with that change is that there's going to be too many actions that will be needed to be bound to keys for PC players. On my healer jobs I'm already almost at the limit of hotbar slots that I have keybinds for, while keeping a somewhat logical layout at the same time.

So either they replace some healing spells with some offensive/buff/debuff ones, or I'll have to completely rethink my UI/hotbar/keybind layout I guess, which would make me sad.

This has been countered many times in the past. We have an overabundance of repetitive healing buttons. Sage has roughly 20 different buttons for healing, yet in most pieces of content, can rely on around 4-5, with only 2 comprising the majority of that, for example. Condensing healing actions into a more manageable number not only gives room for a few more attack actions, but also makes it easier for less experienced healers to learn the differences between their healing actions more easily. The burden of knowledge on having so many different heals is often too overwhelming to the beginner right now.

[Supersnow845]

Trying to explain to new players that the pretty big new SHIELD healer heals most effectively by stacking 2-3 regens together and that the other shield requires about 5 button presses to put out 2 heals is definitely a factor in the problem of heal button bloat

All healers functionally have the same HPS potential of WHM (or slightly higher) but WHM doesnt beat around the bush by putting it on 15 buttons instead of 3

[ty_taurus]

Trying to explain to new players that the pretty big new SHIELD healer heals most effectively by stacking 2-3 regens together and that the other shield requires about 5 button presses to put out 2 heals is definitely a factor in the problem of heal button bloat

All healers functionally have the same HPS potential of WHM (or slightly higher) but WHM doesnt beat around the bush by putting it on 15 buttons instead of 3

I just don't refer to them as barrier healers, because it's too misleading. Both Scholar and Sage are more accurately regen healers. You have one permanent single target regen (Eos/Kardia), and your primary healing tools are regens (Whispering Dawn/Sacred Soil/Physis II/Kerachole). Calling them barrier healers is like calling chocolate ice cream "strawberry" because it's garnished with a single strawberry, but the ice cream is entirely chocolate.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I honestly would've agreed more if they're labelled as "Mitigative Healer" considering that all those built-in regens are sort of 'mitigating/slowing down' the rate which your subjects are dying. But that's just one of the thing I'm personally nitpicky about their choice of words.

[Maltothoris]

The sad thing is in all the expansions they have never bothered to get rid of healing spells even when it’s clear that they are quite obsolete later on.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I mean, a non healing button Undraw still exists lmfao.

The bar is very low.

[hunter2]

A question I'd to ask is what percentage of GCDs do you healer mains want to use on DPS vs. heals? How many total buttons (including OGCDs) do you want to spend on heals vs. DPS? Assuming healer DPS was suitably complex enough to be "fun" or "interesting."

I went and counted how many hotbar buttons tanks and healers currently have for damage vs non-damage (not the percentage of spent GCDs, just hotbar space).
Tanks have an average of about 18 damage buttons to 15 non-damaging buttons while healers have an average of 6 damage buttons to 24 non-damaging buttons. Even Astrologian with Draw, Play, Redraw, Divination, Lightspeed, Astrodyne and Minor Arcana doesn't come close to having as many damage buttons as Warrior, the easiest tank.

[ty_taurus]

I went and counted how many hotbar buttons tanks and healers currently have for damage vs non-damage (not the percentage of spent GCDs, just hotbar space).
Tanks have an average of about 18 damage buttons to 15 non-damaging buttons while healers have an average of 6 damage buttons to 24 non-damaging buttons. Even Astrologian with Draw, Play, Redraw, Divination, Lightspeed, Astrodyne and Minor Arcana doesn't come close to having as many damage buttons as Warrior, the easiest tank.

To be fair on both sides, I don't think every individual button as-is should count toward the amount of options each job actually has. For example, I don't count Glare and Holy as separate actions, because they are the same thing. One you use for bosses, the other you use for dungeon trash. If they were the same button, literally nothing would change for WHM gameplay. I also don't really count the 1-2-3 combos of tanks as separate actions because they're really just one long action separated across 3 GCDs. Upheaval and Orogeny are the same thing. Holy Spirit and Holy Circle are the same thing...

Yes they are separate actions, but what purpose do they serve? That's what really should matter when discussing the tools available to each job. What really matters for Warror, for example, would be the following:

1. Storm's Path Combo
2. Storms' Eye/AOE Combo
3. Tomahawk
4. Upheaval/Orogeny
5. Onslaught
6. Inner Release
7. Infuriate
8. Beast Gauge Spender (FC/IC/Decimate/CC)
9. Primal Rend

So that's really just 9 different things you're consistently interacting with, and Tomahawk is debatable given how little melee jobs are pushed out of melee range any more. Warrior is the most simple tank in terms of DPS complexity and does get some criticism for being just a little too simple.

[IDontPetLalas]

I went and counted how many hotbar buttons tanks and healers currently have for damage vs non-damage (not the percentage of spent GCDs, just hotbar space).
Tanks have an average of about 18 damage buttons to 15 non-damaging buttons while healers have an average of 6 damage buttons to 24 non-damaging buttons. Even Astrologian with Draw, Play, Redraw, Divination, Lightspeed, Astrodyne and Minor Arcana doesn't come close to having as many damage buttons as Warrior, the easiest tank.

I would agree, it's difficult to compare, some of those buttons that you're comparing on AST have fairly long CDs and they won't even necessarily be a damage button - minor arcana might give you a heal. I wouldn't even count draw and re-draw as damage buttons as they lead to play- those 3 could likely be reduced and still work

Really on AST you're looking at your dot #1 DPS, spamming your one DPS #2 DPS at at higher level earthly star #3 DPS (1 min CD) and macro #4 DPS (3 minCD), and timing your cards as required by content (e,g, 2 min) % DPS- with #2 (malefic) be spammed by far the most. OK, Ill grant you- yes minor arcana would make #6, however personally (and this is myself) I consider it rather underwhelming as I tend not to get whatever I want.

[hunter2]

(...) Yes they are separate actions, but what purpose do they serve? That's what really should matter when discussing the tools available to each job. What really matters for Warror, for example, would be the following:

1. Storm's Path Combo
2. Storms' Eye/AOE Combo
3. Tomahawk
4. Upheaval/Orogeny
5. Onslaught
6. Inner Release
7. Infuriate
8. Beast Gauge Spender (FC/IC/Decimate/CC)
9. Primal Rend

So that's really just 9 different things you're consistently interacting with, and Tomahawk is debatable given how little melee jobs are pushed out of melee range any more. Warrior is the most simple tank in terms of DPS complexity and does get some criticism for being just a little too simple.

Yeah, button count is an imperfect indicator. You could cut Monk or Black Mage down to 10 buttons and they'd still be way more engaging than the average Tank rotation. But it's a really bad look for Healer design that even Warrior's level of dps complexity is far above what Healers are allowed to play with.

While we have a few interesting healing buttons, the dps side needs a drastic improvement before I'll pick up my nouliths/book/cane again.