Do you know why the average pf player is so bad?

[Nadda]

What also doesn't help is that people are way to nice. I remember doing Sastasha at release as a Tank and I was horrible.
My group chew me out even though I said I was new, which made me want get better fast xD
Not saying that was the good way to handle a sprout tank, but every is so overly sweet in this game.
If you say anything to someone someone will probably come to their defence and say be nice, it doesn't matter etc even in high level content, or the bad player will gets super defensive, even if you say something like please use your cooldowns Tank.
You rarely get responded to with sorry and improvement.

Yeah, I agree.
The game could do a better job of teaching players.
However, our overall niceness has also atrophied players brains.

Like an over-nurturing parent.

It's not that being a jerk is something that should be tolerated... but being too nice isn't helpful either.
What doesn't help is the game doesn't create many points of adversity for player growth and when it does try even a little bit we coddle people.

We're like Eulmore! Everyone is fat dimwitted miquotes with too much money sitting in their night clubs while the world is dying around us.

[Ravenblade1979]

You know, I like watching new players trying FFXIV for the first time on youtube, I like to see their reactions and stuff. But one think I also notice is that a lot of them complain about how easy the earlier fights are, and they are indeed braindead easy. The orange juices take too long and are not punishing enough, you can literally stand inside them and nothing will happen. The bosses die too quickly and are not interesting at all, there are no mechanics and you don't learn nothing with them. There are no non-optional challening dungeons in ARR (yes, all the somewhat challenging ones are optional, which explains why new players struggle a lot in them). You know where the first stack mechanic happens? In fucking Praetorium. The first proximity? Titan (it doesn't even kill you). The first spread? Ultima. Wtf? These are mechanics trash mobs should use imo (but that's a discussion for another thread), you should definitelly see them way earlier and way more frequent.

How would be my approach to solve this issue: you know that slime that is a midboss in Copperbell Mines? You know the tiny slimes that it shoots that explodes? Yeah, make the telegraphs be a second long. And make them take half of your life and give you vul stacks. Yeah, you will be hit in the first time but you won't want to be hit in the second time. Make the players see what's going on in the screen and solve their own problems. The fire boss in Halatali? Make that be an actual dps check. You just have two or three dps buttons at that level! Press the buttons! The divebombs of the last boss of Stone Vigil, make them way quicker! I always fall asleep in that boss! And please add more of the fundamental mechanics such as stacks, spreads and proximities throughout the earlier dungeons, you should not have to wait 50 levels to start to learn about them.

I would suggest a true min ilvl setting then. One that would see all content in its original difficulty and ilvl not being able to be cheesed with high level gear.

Like I mean a true min ilvl. Then see if people whine its too easy. Which is laughable to hear since most parties still wipe in crystal raid series

[Merrigan]

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.

What is "legacy movement" ? 5 years in the game, and I never heard of that x)

[Jeeqbit]

What is "legacy movement" ? 5 years in the game, and I never heard of that x)

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

[Eastwall]

.

And beyond difficulty, when your average casual player decides to give an Extreme Trial a try and pokes their head into the Party Finder, they'll see things like "doing double-reverse windmill strategy" and "must have watched video" they're going to be like "Ah, this isn't for me" and never look back. Because they want to play a game, not do research and homework.

Actually, that's one of the main reason l don't do anything beyond story mode. But l doubt if l would do or even if there is a smooth curve for other reasons.

[Kacho_Nacho]

One reason might be because they're handicapped. Like me with two bad hands and bad hearing. They also might be new and their first time doing the duty. I have seen bots in my party from duty finder. Get a bot tank or healer and the party will be very bad.

Being handicapped definitely affects my game play. I even had the tank ask if I was trolling in a recent raid. (It was the one where you fight Nophica and some of the other Twelve).

I told him truthly I wasn't. "I'm just really bad at that particular raid."

It 100% comes down to the fact I am fighting my body and mind to react to mechanics and that doesn't give me much time to react to things. Usually, I just avoid those types of duties/raids but sometimes you just have to take what the roulette gives you.

But... I still try to be a good player by learning my rotations, reading tooltips, and watching videos.

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

Thanks for the tip! It sounds like something I need to try.

[GoatOfWar]

The game sets the bar to completion too low, and people cry any time there's something remotely challenging (Remember when they nerfed the EW MSQ mission?) Not only that, they buff jobs that don't need buffs to make streamers and rage babies happy.

[Nadda]

Being handicapped definitely affects my game play. I even had the tank ask if I was trolling in a recent raid. (It was the one where you fight Nophica and some of the other Twelve).

I'm completely tolerant if someone is handicapped long as they say they are at the start.
I remember one time waiting on a main tank in Praetorium of all things - it was right before you get to ride the magitech war mecha - I can't remember the particulars but they needed to replace some tube thing that was attached to their body.
I was like sure and waited and so did everyone else.

I'm not sure how niche the handicapped audience is but that's not particularly what I reckon most of us are covering.
Even then if it's somebodies first time or they don't get something - I'll always be patient and ride it through.
If you don't give up I won't give up.

The issue we're talking about has more to do with other people who face a skill wall and quit because the game hasn't taught them well

[Mecia]

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.

Minority here.

You can strafe while holding right click, theres no need to completely turn around. Theres no time difference at all unless you meant turning by just holding left or right.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Minority here.

You can strafe while holding right click, theres no need to completely turn around. Theres no time difference at all unless you meant turning by just holding left or right.

There is a time difference. It's not a full second but the time to click is still an extra button compared to just moving with legacy.
Doesn't really affect that much though.

I only started using it once I got into deep dungeons since it's so much easier to kite with legacy controls.