Do you know why the average pf player is so bad?

[Jojoya]

Prestige in gaming is healthy, giving players a goal is healthy, yet we've ran far from that in most cases.

I would edit that to read:

Prestige in competitive gaming is healthy, giving players a goal is healthy, yet we've ran far from that in most cases.

The majority of games that people play have nothing to do with prestige. They aren't even thinking about prestige when they're playing. They're thinking about relaxation and fun. Perhaps they'll challenge themselves to a personal best but they're not interested in competing against others.

It is the competitive games where prestige becomes important.

FFXIV may have some competitive content but it is not intended to be a competitive game in general. If it was, SE would either create a better defined third party tool policy or do a better job of integrating the popular tools into the game. They would create an official world first race instead of keeping their distance from the unofficial race that players have organized.

Prestige in games is what leads to most toxicity. Some players start acting like they're superior to others when we're all just people at the end of the day.

Whether someone wants a goal in the games they play is their personal business. Most of us already have goals to meet in our personal and work lives. We aren't necessarily looking for more from a game.

Well said.

However, I believe teaching tools and experience can be one and the same.
(snip the rest)

You can try to teach someone. They will not learn anything if they're not interested in the lesson.

You may think people should aspire to a certain level. That does not mean that they agree or will do it.

Not everyone is interested in a taste of higher difficuty. Many are very happy exactly right where they are. Try to force them into that higher difficulty and you're far more likely to end up losing a customer than creating a better player.

That is human nature. Those with interest in rising to a challenge will do it. Those without interest in rising to a challenge won't. They'll just walk away if you try to force it on them.

[strawberrycake]

I would edit that to read:

The majority of games that people play have nothing to do with prestige. They aren't even thinking about prestige when they're playing. They're thinking about relaxation and fun. Perhaps they'll challenge themselves to a personal best but they're not interested in competing against others.It is the competitive games where prestige becomes important. FFXIV may have some competitive content but it is not intended to be a competitive game in general. If it was, SE would either create a better defined third party tool policy or do a better job of integrating the popular tools into the game. They would create an official world first race instead of keeping their distance from the unofficial race that players have organized.Prestige in games is what leads to most toxicity. Some players start acting like they're superior to others when we're all just people at the end of the day.Whether someone wants a goal in the games they play is their personal business. Most of us already have goals to meet in our personal and work lives. We aren't necessarily looking for more from a game.

You're missing the point of how this is playing out, players have nothing to aspire to and adding in Prestige helps with that. It's not about being competitive, nothing about raiding outside the world race, is competitive, It's about players having obtainable reasons to step out of their comfort zones. Beating a raid and earning a title, a mount and a weapon, as well as returning to when we had a difference between normal and savage armor, that, just like it did before, when XIV was way smaller, would encourage people to give savage a try. And people already act like they're better then others in XIV for social reasons, hiding behind the idea that things make people toxic is a dated way of viewing things.

People are toxic in the Venue scene based on how well their venues are doing, people are toxic based on how well their screen shots are doing, people are toxic based on how well their fan fics are doing, people are toxic based on how many people visit their house and compliment the decorations. I see nothing being said and done about that. So I DO NOT agree with that as we ignore how socially toxic XIV can be based in those things.

Also just because You are fufilled in Your life, doesn't mean Othersdon't wanna achieve more in their hobby. And if any of this is added you won't be affected. I'm a full time nurse, I've saved peoples lives before, and that is to say, I'm extrememly fufilled by my work, but achieveing things in my hobby is nice and fun. And By no means does the existence of what I'm talking about take away from how you play, or even affects it. And to top it off we have Prestige in Ultimates and whats are all of them doing, helping more people clear, helping in Eureka, helping in Bozja, because they like helping people.

And just like I mentioned people being toxic in housing, screens, venues, and the fic community. They are the minority, just like toxic people aren;t the majority in raiding. And I get it, you don't like the idea of change that can open the door to toxicity, but it already happens in so many ways as is.

Also have you interacted with XIV's raiding scene in any compacity? Most of us are p chill and just want what savage was before back. It's that simple.

[Darnath]

You can try to teach someone. They will not learn anything if they're not interested in the lesson.

You may think people should aspire to a certain level. That does not mean that they agree or will do it.

Not everyone is interested in a taste of higher difficuty. Many are very happy exactly right where they are. Try to force them into that higher difficulty and you're far more likely to end up losing a customer than creating a better player.

That is human nature. Those with interest in rising to a challenge will do it. Those without interest in rising to a challenge won't. They'll just walk away if you try to force it on them.

One of those players here.

I'm quite content to be an Duty Finder dweller.
I have ZERO interest in Extreme, Savage, or Ultimate. I've got enough stress IRL that when I come home and tend to home affairs the last thing I want is a stressed environment. Especially in a gaming environment I'm paying every month for. Single player 1 shot pay, I'll tolerate. Multiplayer where I'm paying money and my mistakes (which I'm prone to do) affect the fun of 7-23 other players, no thanks. "But they're just other people on the internet, why care about strangers?" Sorry. I just do care about how my actions directly affect other humans.

It's the reason I left WoW. Not the harassment and other internal issues. Battle for Azeroth pushed the game into a harder mode that basically pushed the equivalent of "DF Players" (aka LFR heroes) into basically either log in just to do 4 daily quests then log off or not even play at all. If the game were to go into the direction the vast majority of this forum wants it to go to, I'd probably take my years here and walk as well. I was relieved when reddit and a few other places confirmed IGN was just clickbaiting when YoshiP confirmed there will be no difficulty spikes, just "more stress" which still has me wary.

So yes, some players may rise up to the increased challenge as some post here. Others will walk. The question is : Will the walkers outnumber the players who left because the game is "too easy"?

[hynaku]

One reason might be because their handicapped. Like me with two bad hands and bad hearing. They also might be new and their first time doing the duty. I have seen bots in my party from duty finder. Get a bot tank or healer and the party will be very bad.

[Jojoya]

players have nothing to aspire to

The achievement lists has tons of things to aspire to. The rewards in the game are things to aspire to if they interest you.

If someone needs prestige, there's PvP. There's getting an Ultimate weapon and title.

No one is going to get prestige from MSQ difficulty being increased.

[Nadda]

You can try to teach someone. They will not learn anything if they're not interested in the lesson.

You may think people should aspire to a certain level. That does not mean that they agree or will do it.

Not everyone is interested in a taste of higher difficuty. Many are very happy exactly right where they are. Try to force them into that higher difficulty and you're far more likely to end up losing a customer than creating a better player.

That is human nature. Those with interest in rising to a challenge will do it. Those without interest in rising to a challenge won't. They'll just walk away if you try to force it on them.

Not force.
Not try.

Conditioned.
You trick them into becoming more competent players who *could* try higher-end content quite easily IF they wanted to.
Humans can be conditioned. Humans are very adaptable so you create an environment in which they slowly acclimate.
Not make things difficult for them that they'd even notice. Just enough to change their nature.

Right now the game doesn't do a good job of this so many players who are curious get slapped in the face with a skill wall.
I only want the people who want to try - but fail and quit, to become people who try and won't be daunted, because they won't face a wall but a hurdle.
And it will all be a natural corraling. If you edge the difficulty up in normal content just a smidge progressively the gap of entry becomes shorter in a way where normal content isn't too difficult but EXs/Unreals should they try them isn't too hard for them either.

[sindriiisgaming]

PF players are the way they are because they are casual players that didn't gear up yet (they are either in crafted gear or lower, often lower), they don't use food and pots, they don't understand snapshotting properly so they think the game has lag issues, they don't use legacy movement so they find the game infinitely harder

Never understand this.. I don't play in legacy and its never been a hindrance to me lol

[Deceptus]

Short answer:

The game has been neutered so much that it doesn't properly teach you / incentivize though the leveling process to be better. Everything is survivable, nothing stops you.

[Wolwosh]

What also doesn't help is that people are way to nice. I remember doing Sastasha at release as a Tank and I was horrible.
My group chew me out even though I said I was new, which made me want get better fast xD
Not saying that was the good way to handle a sprout tank, but every is so overly sweet in this game.
If you say anything to someone someone will probably come to their defence and say be nice, it doesn't matter etc even in high level content, or the bad player will gets super defensive, even if you say something like please use your cooldowns Tank.
You rarely get responded to with sorry and improvement.

[Jeeqbit]

Never understand this.. I don't play in legacy and its never been a hindrance to me lol

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.