Do you know why the average pf player is so bad?

[Vandso]

You know, I like watching new players trying FFXIV for the first time on youtube, I like to see their reactions and stuff. But one think I also notice is that a lot of them complain about how easy the earlier fights are, and they are indeed braindead easy. The orange juices take too long and are not punishing enough, you can literally stand inside them and nothing will happen. The bosses die too quickly and are not interesting at all, there are no mechanics and you don't learn nothing with them. There are no non-optional challening dungeons in ARR (yes, all the somewhat challenging ones are optional, which explains why new players struggle a lot in them). You know where the first stack mechanic happens? In fucking Praetorium. The first proximity? Titan (it doesn't even kill you). The first spread? Ultima. Wtf? These are mechanics trash mobs should use imo (but that's a discussion for another thread), you should definitelly see them way earlier and way more frequent.

How would be my approach to solve this issue: you know that slime that is a midboss in Copperbell Mines? You know the tiny slimes that it shoots that explodes? Yeah, make the telegraphs be a second long. And make them take half of your life and give you vul stacks. Yeah, you will be hit in the first time but you won't want to be hit in the second time. Make the players see what's going on in the screen and solve their own problems. The fire boss in Halatali? Make that be an actual dps check. You just have two or three dps buttons at that level! Press the buttons! The divebombs of the last boss of Stone Vigil, make them way quicker! I always fall asleep in that boss! And please add more of the fundamental mechanics such as stacks, spreads and proximities throughout the earlier dungeons, you should not have to wait 50 levels to start to learn about them.

[Souljacker]

The early dungeons used to have some interesting mechanics, they were removed and replaced.

I think it was a mistake.

[Burmecia]

The early dungeons used to have some interesting mechanics, they were removed and replaced.

I think it was a mistake.

Wasn't that done for Trusts?

[Saraide]

Wasn't that done for Trusts?

Doubtful. There's no way trusts couldnt have handled something like the elemental tower mechanic in castrum abania. There is no functional difference between that mechanic and any other donut shaped attack.

[Jeeqbit]

PF players are the way they are because they are casual players that didn't gear up yet (they are either in crafted gear or lower, often lower), they don't use food and pots, they don't understand snapshotting properly so they think the game has lag issues, they don't use legacy movement so they find the game infinitely harder, their HUD Layout probably isn't optimized so their concentration is divided all over the screen.

You know, I like watching new players trying FFXIV for the first time on youtube, I like to see their reactions and stuff. But one think I also notice is that a lot of them complain about how easy the earlier fights are

The ones I've seen on YouTube are the opposite. They find pressing their 2-button rotation whilst running out of a red circle difficult and end up breaking their combo and stuff like that. So not everyone finds that easy and obviously SE is thinking of the players who find it hard.

there are no mechanics and you don't learn nothing with them

Not really true. This is teaching them that in-out patterns are common, that red circles are common, that stack markers and tank busters are a standard part of the game. By repeating this concept throughout the ARR MSQ dungeons, it teaches them the norms of the game so that when they build upon it in the expansions, it makes more sense to them.

The first spread? Ultima.

There are definitely multiple spreads in Praetorium.

[sindriiisgaming]

PF players are the way they are because they are casual players that didn't gear up yet (they are either in crafted gear or lower, often lower), they don't use food and pots, they don't understand snapshotting properly so they think the game has lag issues, they don't use legacy movement so they find the game infinitely harder

Never understand this.. I don't play in legacy and its never been a hindrance to me lol

[Jeeqbit]

Never understand this.. I don't play in legacy and its never been a hindrance to me lol

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.

[Merrigan]

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.

What is "legacy movement" ? 5 years in the game, and I never heard of that x)

[Jeeqbit]

What is "legacy movement" ? 5 years in the game, and I never heard of that x)

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

[Mecia]

It's a hindrance, because in standard you have to slowly turn your player around with the mouse, which takes about 1 second. Then you can start running forwards out of the aoe. By the time you have done that, it has been 2 seconds. Casts are typically 3 seconds, and some of that is taken up by ping, so you are just barely avoiding it.

In contrast, while in legacy, you just press "S" to run out of the aoe. You can do it one-handed in 1 second. Because you have 2 seconds left, you can delay it for uptime and move out at the last moment.

It makes the game significantly easier on a keyboard/mouse. A large part of the difficulty for most keyboard/mouse players is created by being in standard mode tbh.

There are some people that find standard better but they seem like a minority, because anyone I teach about legacy usually finds it transformative to their gameplay.

Minority here.

You can strafe while holding right click, theres no need to completely turn around. Theres no time difference at all unless you meant turning by just holding left or right.