Healer Suggestions Megathread

[ASkellington]

-It was just medica before.Having targeting only improves its dismal use case.

Helios 2 doesn't exist. And no, targeting does not improve its dismal use case.

-A. Benefic is bloat, a dps loss that you want to use as little as possible. This CI is dps neutral with a common use case.

Current CI is just fine and sees enough use when Exaltation is not there. It doesn't need to be a regen. And I don't see why you're fixated on this "dps" loss. We want MORE reasons to use our GCD and stop our dps, not less.

-There is a distinction here with the delays, but not significantly.

And here is where I lost my suspicion that you don't play AST and started to believe you've never touched the class. There is a huge distinction with the delayed healing vs the upfront heals that WHM has. It isn't just a heal with a cast time. Its a heal that you can choose to detonate at will or leave it to set up for another time. That's the fun part of these tools that you completely destroyed with your rework and an expression of skill.*

-Exalt was a different version of aquaveil before. My version doesn't function like Bension because it competes with other healing options. Also, current Celestial Intersection is Bension, so this is moving away from current white mage.

Exaltation under your rework is LITERALLY the current Celestial Intersection - a singled target shield instead of a mitigation with a heal at the end of it. You may as well have kept CI as it is then. So no, its NOT moving away from current WHM since its STILL RIGHT THERE.

-Medica 2 is a GCD regen and a DPS loss. This Earthly Star functions like SCH's Indom.

Once again, SCH is RIGHT HERE if I want Indom. I don't play SCH for a reason. Why would I want SCH's tool on a class I play specifically because I don't want to play SCH?

-Generic AOE shields are something whitemage doesn't have. Also a niche use case.

You're so fixated on "its something WHM" doesn't have that you can't see that you're tearing apart a classes' identity. Further AST already has access to shields with its current kit. Neutral Sect.

-WHM's healing focuses on GCD use with decent ST oGCD tools, but needs to use its AOE oGCDs more sparingly. It stinks at preventing damage, but can consistently heal the party quickly.
My astro's healing kit is oGCD focused with equal strength in its ST and AOE tools. Each mechanic can be solved a different, depending on your co-healer and type of damage.
A large hit may call for shielding. A bleed, a regen. Back to back damage could be done with shields+regens, or a burst heal. A sage co-healer may mean you don't shield anything. A white mage partner may trend you more towards shielding. The skill expression comes from knowing how to managed your resources, recognizing types of damage, and covering your co-healer lacks.

So basically your reasoning for why this AST is different completely boils down to "its on the oGCD' while also ignoring the skill expression that AST currently HAS and people like about it*. Being an oGCD healer isn't a playstyle. EVERY HEALER currently plays on the oGCD except WHM and making AST into an oGCD healer isn't even an identity.

I don't understand "burst healer" and "delayed healer." Does having 3 skill you press 5~ seconds earlier contribute to the jobs feeling different? If the kit was built around delaying tools then maybe.

Delayed healing is just that. Delayed. It isn't upfront or direct as you like to call it. That's WHM's whole playstyle and that's the exact playstyle you just gave AST when it has enough delayed healing tools TO MAKE A KIT BUILT AROUND THAT. Why would you instead strip it away, taking away from AST mains what THEY LIKE and alienating them just as SE does?

I find it interesting how you completely ignore the DPS part of the redesign when DPS takes up 70% or more of any encounter... and looking at my dps and card mechanics, it doesn't feel anything like the current white mage.

Frankly I don't care that your DPS redesign is different. Its only one part of the class and I already told you my thoughts on it.

I'll sum them up: it doesn't sound fun to play, it doesn't sound like anything ASTs would want, if you wanted a proc system the PvP kit is right there and better than it simply because the abilities themselves change vs. making the cards recast timer shorter per proc which is certainly more interesting to me, and once again - it doesn't change the fact that you made AST more into WHM. Pretty much everything here you could have given to WHM instead and it'd fit the class more because its all direct healing. THAT is WHM's theme. And why that alone should be enough to give it the identity of the easy healer. You have more tools that are upfront instead of being focused on doing high damage, or extra planning.

If your rework is just to have 4 completely new healers you've achieved that. But where you failed completely is even looking at how AST plays, what parts of AST seem to be the theme about it, or even what players who like AST even want.

We LIKE delayed healing. We like being able to set up a Horoscope or Macrocosmos or Earthly Star and time it to line up for a raid wide. But you want to take that away and make us more like WHM. No thank you.

I would much rather have regens be stripped from the other 3 healers and make that and the delayed heals of Horo/Macro/ES/Exalt be AST's identity than anything you've put down here.

You said you had another draft that incorporated those, I'd certainly rather have that than this.

[OliviaLugria]

So basically your reasoning for why this AST is different completely boils down to "its on the oGCD' while also ignoring the skill expression that AST currently HAS and people like about it*. Being an oGCD healer isn't a playstyle. EVERY HEALER currently plays on the oGCD except WHM and making AST into an oGCD healer isn't even an identity.

Oh, so it isn't like white mage? Thank you.

My arguments stemmed from not being like white mage because that is what you said it was like. That is what we were having an argument about. I mentioned things that were DPS losses because high-end gameplay is about maximizing dps. It doesn't matter how cool an interaction is if the player is encouraged to not use it. The identity of this astro isn't being an oGCD healer as you seem to have only read one sentence about how I tried to distinguish it from white mage. It has the 3 main types of healing in the game. Shields, Regens, and upfront/burst that all share the same resource. Understanding what types of damage is being thrown at you and reacting accordingly. Another aspect is reacting to how your co-healer plays and reacting to their strengths. This also calls back to the old diurnal and nocturnal sects of old.

Current Whm - Current Ast
Basically 1:1 skills

Glare - Malefic
Dia - Combust
Cure I - Cure II
Cure II - Benefict II
Medica - Helios
Medica II - A. Helios
Tetra - Essential Dignity
Divine Benison - Celestial Intersection
Aqua Veil - Exaltation
Raise - Ascend

Functionally very similar
Plenary Indulgence - Horoscope
Asylum - Collective Unconcious

12 outta of 24 astro skills has are basically white mage skills. 50% of their kit

Current White Mage vs. My Astro

Basically 1:1 skills
Cure II - Benefict II
Cure III - Helios II

Functionally very similar
Temperance - Shroud of Stars

3 outta 25 astro skills match up with white mage. 12%

Like, I understand making an argument for more delayed skills in the astro kit, and you can role with that. I don't understand the argument of comparing it to white mage.

[ASkellington]

For the final time - removing the delayed healings from AST makes it feel more like WHM and less like AST. You can disagree with that all you want, but that is objectively fact because those are exactly what makes AST different from WHM aside from its cards.

You literally just pointed out how similar AST and WHM are sub50.

Current Whm - Current Ast
Basically 1:1 skills

Glare - Malefic
Dia - Combust
Cure I - Cure II
Cure II - Benefict II
Medica - Helios
Medica II - A. Helios
Tetra - Essential Dignity
Divine Benison - Celestial Intersection
Aqua Veil - Exaltation
Raise - Ascend

And I am repeatedly telling you that removing the delayed heals from Exaltation, Macrocosmos, Horoscope, and Earthly Star is quite frankly turning AST into that. Doesn't matter if its on the oGCD or not. If you can't understand that, I don't know how to make it more clear.

I've never argued that sub50 AST and WHM especially now that Noct Sect is gone is too similar. I don't know why you don't focus on fixing that rather than screwing up everything else.

I also feel like I should point out Helios/A. Helios still has a place in AST's kit thanks to Horoscope and so do A. Benefict and A. Helios thanks to Neutral sect. A nice part of kit interactivity I'd rather see expanded on that you removed in favor of making AST more dull.