I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Colt47]

Honestly, both Scholar and Astro need help beyond just more dps buttons. Went back to playing scholar after two years and realized very quickly how unintuitive the aetherflow mechanics are. You basically need aetherflow to access a good chunk of their abilities and the stacks are stuck on a button that also serves to restore MP, and another button that kills your healing actions from the pet for 20% bonus healing. Mechanically they need to be able to gain aetherflow from doing standard abilities. Some of the combo skills the scholar has are already a bit of a learning curve like emergency tactics and deployment tactics.

The problem they got is over complicating the healing kits. The DPS side is basically the same as what we have in PvP.

[ForsakenRoe]

The problem they got is over complicating the healing kits. The DPS side is basically the same as what we have in PvP.

Remove the dash from Seraph Strike and you have almost move for move the ability cadence of SB WHM. The 20s Seraph Strike mirrors the 24s duration Aero 3 (sort of), and the 15s Misery mirrors the 18s Aero 2 duration (sort of)

SGE applying shields by using it's damage skills, and being able to counterattack with Toxikon as an OGCD when the shield is broken makes it way faster paced for PVP too. Not sure SCH would work so well though, since it's PVP kit is so focused around spreading the debilitation of the DOT with a pseudo-Bane, which wouldn't be much help in singletarget content

Still, pretty impressive that they have 'an answer' of sorts (use the PVP damage rotations in PVE too) right in front of them and they still can't see it

[Colt47]

Remove the dash from Seraph Strike and you have almost move for move the ability cadence of SB WHM. The 20s Seraph Strike mirrors the 24s duration Aero 3 (sort of), and the 15s Misery mirrors the 18s Aero 2 duration (sort of)

SGE applying shields by using it's damage skills, and being able to counterattack with Toxikon as an OGCD when the shield is broken makes it way faster paced for PVP too. Not sure SCH would work so well though, since it's PVP kit is so focused around spreading the debilitation of the DOT with a pseudo-Bane, which wouldn't be much help in singletarget content

Still, pretty impressive that they have 'an answer' of sorts (use the PVP damage rotations in PVE too) right in front of them and they still can't see it

The pvp team has more freedom in what they can do with the jobs skills than the people who are doing the PvE content. Well, that and Scholar is another healer that suffers from the change in direction on what healers are supposed to do. Originally it was something like Scholar = shield healer, WHM = pure healer, and then Astro was this funny guy that could do both depending on draws. When they swapped things to pure shield and heal the kits got a bit weird. To put it bluntly I'm not a big fan of how much of a pain in the rear they made getting shields on people with scholar. I'd much rather prefer them to have dedicated healing spells and then dedicated shielding spells, and have skills that boost shields. Because right now they have this weird heal that requires time to cast, which then has to be comboed with two other skills to create a strong shield across the entire party.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Emergency Tactics, either. If the shielding was simpler then Emergency Tactics would have a use, but the way scholar has to wield the current skills it just isn't worth it because the skills that shield also provide healing. I'd rather have them do something like create a shield for 1/4 of a persons health using a skill and then combo Emergency tactics to turn it into a heal, then to have to use Adlo + Recitation to crit heal and apply a mega shield that likely isn't needed at that point unless you've planned out a mega shield for a strong AOE and are using Deployment Tactics on top of it. (Also, Adlo + Recitation + Deployment Tactics puts my warrior triple buff shield timing skills to the test...)

Like the core of a shield healer should be dedicated heal + dedicated shield + skills unique to the Job that give it flavor. The Pure Healers should be more like "Temp HP" healers that buff the base HP of the character temporarily and then heal them that amount so they can take bigger hits. Both fill the same role, but they do it different ways.

[ty_taurus]

The pvp team has more freedom in what they can do with the jobs skills than the people who are doing the PvE content.

PVP Sage is a thousand times more fun than PVE Sage, and nearly all of its kit would function perfectly fine in PVE.

Shorter cooldowns in Eurkrasian Dosis III and Phelgma III? Amazing! OGCD Toxikon with the Toxikon II upgrade when your Eukrasian Dosis III barrier breaks? It would likely break all the time in PVE with no concern about timing or anything, but nothing about it is mechanically broken or unfit for PVE, and I would gladly take that over the steeping pile of stormblood lily feces that Addersting is currently.

What doesn't work? Well Pneuma being a DPS laser is fantastic, but attaching Panhaima to it on cast means that, like Assize, the Panhaima's usefulness is largely dependent on whether or not you needed those barriers whenever Pneuma came off cooldown. But if you simply make it so that Pneuma casts enable a free cast of Panhaima, thus giving you the control to cast it as you need it, that would resolve that issue completely. Mesotes is the only thing that straight up doesn't work, but it's also the PVP limit break. I don't feel like PVE Sage needs that or anything like it, so remove Mesotes and update everything eise with PVP Sage (including the cooldowns for E. Dosis III, Phlegma III, and Pneuma), with the small consideration for how Pneuma works, and adjust the potencies accordingly for PVE, and we have a Sage that is 20 times better than the dogshit we have now.

[Colt47]

PVP Sage is a thousand times more fun than PVE Sage, and nearly all of its kit would function perfectly fine in PVE.

Shorter cooldowns in Eurkrasian Dosis III and Phelgma III? Amazing! OGCD Toxikon with the Toxikon II upgrade when your Eukrasian Dosis III barrier breaks? It would likely break all the time in PVE with no concern about timing or anything, but nothing about it is mechanically broken or unfit for PVE, and I would gladly take that over the steeping pile of stormblood lily feces that Addersting is currently.

What doesn't work? Well Pneuma being a DPS laser is fantastic, but attaching Panhaima to it on cast means that, like Assize, the Panhaima's usefulness is largely dependent on whether or not you needed those barriers whenever Pneuma came off cooldown. But if you simply make it so that Pneuma casts enable a free cast of Panhaima, thus giving you the control to cast it as you need it, that would resolve that issue completely. Mesotes is the only thing that straight up doesn't work, but it's also the PVP limit break. I don't feel like PVE Sage needs that or anything like it, so remove Mesotes and update everything eise with PVP Sage (including the cooldowns for E. Dosis III, Phlegma III, and Pneuma), with the small consideration for how Pneuma works, and adjust the potencies accordingly for PVE, and we have a Sage that is 20 times better than the dogshit we have now.

It's probably a good question that hopefully finds its way to the developers. My own thought is the want people to feel like they are growing with the character as they go through the story, so trying to break the system down into what we got in PvP would underplay the feeling of growth. However, the idea of "growth" is why a lot of jobs need to get constantly pruned of abilities because the general method each expansion of showing growth is to throw some new skill on the hot bar and upgrade the visuals on older ones.

[ty_taurus]

It's probably a good question that hopefully finds its way to the developers. My own thought is the want people to feel like they are growing with the character as they go through the story, so trying to break the system down into what we got in PvP would underplay the feeling of growth. However, the idea of "growth" is why a lot of jobs need to get constantly pruned of abilities because the general method each expansion of showing growth is to throw some new skill on the hot bar and upgrade the visuals on older ones.

Oh I wasn't suggesting reducing the entirety of PVE into PVP, but using what PVP has and changing what tools align with the PVE kit into their PVP iterations. I still don't like how Aethergall is just a reskin of Scholar's resources, and how it utterly dominates Sage's healing priority system... you know, the thing that offers niether barriers nor healing through DPS mechanics? The very bland, generalized OGCD pure heals, regens, and mitigation? I would so much rather Kardia be the centerpiece of Sage's healing style, but just drastically increasing the frequency of DPS actions to that of PVP Sage, making Pneuma a DPS tool and not a glorified, DPS neutral Cure III, and tossing the current Addersting system into the trash can where it belongs, then setting said trash can of fire and blasting it into space in favor of the PVP Addersting... All that while changing nothing else would do wonders for the job.

[mallleable]

On the topic of stealing things from pvp, But I think they need to buff/rework Deployment Tactics for SCH. Like practically remove its cooldown, and let it affect a wider array of buffs, and debuffs that are applied by SCH. Like you could be able to use it to spread your dots or Chain Stratagem to multiple targets, or use it to give your whole party Excogitation. As for additional DPS buttons, giving a new debuff or perhaps reworking Chain to be like Wildfire could be fun. I've seen a lot of calls for wanting a second dot, but what if instead of a dot you could summon Statice, and she just causes trouble for the boss.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I think people tend to ask for 2nd DoT since it's quite possibly one of the easiest thing for SE to do. The file's literally still in the game. The assets are there. And they used to have those too, up to 4 (or 5 if you count crossed Aero I) DoTs in fact.

[Hyperia]

When I did the Mogtome event today, I did Satasha (Hard) and I had more fun healing that than I did than all of the current Expert dungeons. I actually had to heal, and heal quite often where in the current dungeons, the Warrior heals the group and I just spam Holy / Glare.

Why is it that other jobs get more healing than healers? /faceplam

[Mithron]

When I did the Mogtome event today, I did Satasha (Hard) and I had more fun healing that than I did than all of the current Expert dungeons. I actually had to heal, and heal quite often where in the current dungeons, the Warrior heals the group and I just spam Holy / Glare.

Why is it that other jobs get more healing than healers? /faceplam

Yep. You also had much fewer OGCD heals. No Tetra. No Asylum. No Assize. Imagine if they were all OGCD damage abilities instead.