I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Mithron]

That's an interesting video, but this is not my job. I shouldn't be required to get better to enjoy the game.

[ty_taurus]

That's an interesting video, but this is not my job. I shouldn't be required to get better to enjoy the game.

I shouldn’t be required to suck at my job to enjoy the game.

[AnotherPerson]

That's an interesting video, but this is not my job. I shouldn't be required to get better to enjoy the game.

I think you missed the point of the video? No one said you have to be required to get better to enjoy the game (casual content doesn't demand perfection or excellence), but everyone is saying they don't want to be bad at the game to be able to enjoy the experience.

The video is showing that even with disabilities, players can excel & reach the game's ceiling when it was much more complex back in the day. It's not saying you have to perform at the level. Even people in the comments who don't get anywhere near as good as the video poster are still playing the game fine, and they aren't required to get better to enjoy it. However, the comments do note that they are more motivated when people who are suffering more disabilities can still play better than them. That should tell you that people don't get anywhere near as good as the poster, but there's no reason for a job (or role for that matter) to have the skill ceiling set to the skill floor of the job for those who want to achieve it.

[Tigore]

Looking through your ideas, Roe, it looks like a lot of thought has been placed into improving AST. The NIN problem with haste is fixed by making the effect grant much faster auto attacks instead. The Bole is fixed by adding max HP based counter damage. The Ewer is fixed by granting multi-strike to the healers. The Spire's TP generation is fixed by granting magic damage instead equal to the Balance. The Spear's unpredictable cooldown reductions is fixed by granting physical damage instead equal to the Balance. I can definitely see a case where the Ewer could help out the RDM if they have been busy rezzing the party even if they don't get the multi-strike.

I can understand keeping it single target buffs since Royal Road had to cut the potency in half at the very least to balance with the AoE spread. A quarter might have been thought to be needed, but it was still intended to make the effect stronger and balance with extended timers and increased potencies. If the old system was in today's climate, a double Balance or a royal roaded Bole (increased potency) with Balance would be the best usually. I did use AoE Balance in the past, although that kind of shows how bad "The Spire's" base effect for TP generation was to be immediately Royal Roaded.

The new target radius idea for the controller players looks great too. It will be something my Savage player friend could try since he is a PC player using a controller. I almost never saw him use AST as a result.

The minor Arcana cards using GCDs will definitely help to reduce the Malefic spam casts. Were there any thoughts if we should add one more thing? WHM already took on the 15s Water / Banish cooldown idea you had, so we might have to avoid that one. Hate to say it, but the GNB cooldown combo idea might fit here to add with the Malefic filler casts. Maybe give it names similar to the Stella spell we lost. It doesn't have to have the oGCD combo with it. Just the GCD cooldown combo.

[ForsakenRoe]

Looking through your ideas, Roe, it looks like a lot of thought has been placed into improving AST. The NIN problem with haste is fixed by making the effect grant much faster auto attacks instead. The Bole is fixed by adding max HP based counter damage. The Ewer is fixed by granting multi-strike to the healers. The Spire's TP generation is fixed by granting magic damage instead equal to the Balance. The Spear's unpredictable cooldown reductions is fixed by granting physical damage instead equal to the Balance. I can definitely see a case where the Ewer could help out the RDM if they have been busy rezzing the party even if they don't get the multi-strike.

I can understand keeping it single target buffs since Royal Road had to cut the potency in half at the very least to balance with the AoE spread. A quarter might have been thought to be needed, but it was still intended to make the effect stronger and balance with extended timers and increased potencies. If the old system was in today's climate, a double Balance or a royal roaded Bole (increased potency) with Balance would be the best usually. I did use AoE Balance in the past, although that kind of shows how bad "The Spire's" base effect for TP generation was to be immediately Royal Roaded.

The new target radius idea for the controller players looks great too. It will be something my Savage player friend could try since he is a PC player using a controller. I almost never saw him use AST as a result.

The minor Arcana cards using GCDs will definitely help to reduce the Malefic spam casts. Were there any thoughts if we should add one more thing? WHM alrady took on the 15s Water / Banish cooldown idea you had, so we might have to avoid that one. Hate to say it, but the GNB cooldown combo idea might fit here to add with the Malefic filler casts. Maybe give it names similar to the Stella spell we lost. It doesn't have to have the oGCD combo with it. Just the GCD cooldown combo.

- Thanks. As an aside, it wasn't mentioned in the original post, but with this idea, you could throw Ewer on a WHM in any 8man 'casual content' (eg Normal Raid, Alliance Raid, etc), and see a 'multistrike' Misery. I was considering making this 'not possible' for balance, but then I thought 'well, we can't run WHM AST in content where balance actually matters (eg Savage) anyway, so if people want to do it let's just let them, it'd be funny'. I could balance it with some kind of 'stack system' so that you can get, say, 5 casts of filler (Glare/Broil etc), 2 Phlegmas and one filler cast (cos they're twice as strong as the filler), or one Misery, but that's more maths, and it'd make the tooltip super long to read (not like AST is a stranger to long tooltips, Astrodyne reads like a YuGiOh card effect)

- Exactly my thinking with the idea. AOE Balance was just so far ahead of any other result that it was just not possible to make anything else compete. You could have Bole be literally Tank LB2 level strong (50% and AOE) and people would still pass it up for Balance, because 'more damage is always useful', and 'mitigation you can't predict having at the right time is not reliable'. Keep the cards single target, and you can much more easily tune their numbers against one another. The 'big 2min burst window' feel can remain on Divination.

- Thanks again, I would also like to have the idea on PC even with me being a KBM user, because clicking someone's name, then playing the card, then trying to tab target back to Pallas Athena and failing because her model is so damn big (causing GCD clipping) is annoying to me. As mentioned in the post, the fact that it can be expanded to be used on non-card (and even non-healer skills) would be massive for QOL. How many times have we heard about DRGs hating how they have to target an ally with DragonSight, or rely on a clunky macro that sometimes doesn't fire properly and DS's only the DRG? Something like this would help even them. BRD's Esuna thingy is another that comes to mind today, but didn't at the time. I don't play on controller, so I'm not 100% sure on if 'Right Stick' would be better to use than 'Left Stick', but I hope the general gist is conveyed, rather than 'it has to be this exact configuration'

- This last point is an interesting one. And I wrote a lot because of it, so I'll put it in a dropdown box

I do recognise that my WHM and AST ideas both include a '15s GCD' to try and reduce how much filler is spammed, so I get where you're coming from in them maybe feeling samey. However, I'd like to believe that they'd feel at least somewhat different, because one is a direct attack, and one is 'place a buff on an ally', which creates different levels of 'execution' for lack of a better term. With WHM's Banish, you'd hit it on CD, or save it for mobility if you want to (at the cost of about 7 potency per GCD you hold onto it for). With AST, however, you'd be constantly considering who to place the card on, as well as 'can you hold it for mobility' (because you can hold up to two), and if you DID hold two (to blow both at the raidbuff window/the 1min miniburst for something like a NIN/MNK comp), which order the two cards are going to play in, whether either need to be redrawn, whether to use Sleeve Draw to empower them to a Lady (if they're a low facevalue like a 2, 3 or 4), all sorts of extra factors that aren't a consideration with WHM's more simple 'press button, do damage (and get some gauge)'.

For 'additional thing', I did have two ideas, and I didn't copypaste this part into the post from my notes because I thought it'd feel like 'too much all at once', but here we are. So Idea 1 is that this change to Minor Arcana would potentially cause so much 'extra brain space' required to process all the effects, who to put them on, when to pool cards vs play them etc, that Combust might have to be removed. It isn't much of a button as it stands, IMO, and if it meant getting such a technical Card system, I would not miss it one bit. It's a bland button, with a bland effect. If it had some tie-in to Time Magic, ie being able to extend it's duration, instantly detonate the remaining duration for a burst of damage, etc, then I'd say it's cool, but it's not cool. It's boring. And that kind of system would be too complex to be justifiably placed on the same class as the cards, should they get made more interesting. Essentially, I'm making the choice that 'If AST could have interesting cards, or interesting Time Magic stuff, which should it get', I'm taking the cards. They are the thing that sets AST apart from other jobs in lore and aesthetic, so they should be the focus IMO.

Idea 2 is pretty simple, but would be quite interesting potentially. If the idea was made manifest exactly as I wrote above, and Minor Arcana uses the 6 suits that Major does, then it stands to reason that Minor Arcana could also generate Seals, no? Then the 'one more thing' for AST is a minigame of 'aim for 100% uptime on ASTrodyne's self-damage and self-speed buff'. You would be able to generate 3 seals every 30s (one Major, two Minor). For this, I'd make Astrodyne give one buff, with varying effects, rather than the current 'three buffs with one effect each' (for buff cap reasons). I don't know why they did it the way they did, and not like... for example:

Grants an effect using the astrosigns read from your divining deck.
Can only be executed after reading three astrosigns.
Effect granted is determined by the number of different types of astrosigns read.
1 Sign Type: Grants Harmony of Spirit
2 Sign Types: Grants Harmony of Body
3 Sign Types: Grants Harmony of Mind
Duration: 30s
Harmony of Spirit Effect: Gradually restores own MP with a potency of 50
Harmony of Body Effect: Gradually restores own MP with a potency of 50. Additionally, reduces spell cast time and recast time by 10%
Harmony of Mind Effect: Gradually restores own MP with a potency of 50. Additionally, reduces spell cast time and recast time by 10%. Additionally, increases damage dealt and healing potency by 5%

Obviously, if the intention is to aim for 100% uptime on these buffs, their strength will have to be changed. We can't be having permanent 50 potency Refresh, that's like having Lucid active constantly

Playing a game of 'try to aim for maximum Astrodyne uptime', along with all these new card effects? Now that's a high skill ceiling (and also definitely a good reason to axe Combust). Also, I'm not sure if it's possible, but there'd potentially be an interesting gameplay interaction where Minor Arcana's 15s recharge time is reduced by Astrodyne's Spellspeed buff, allowing you to get more Minor Arcana cards faster, leading to more seals, leading to even higher Astrodyne uptime. Perhaps there'd be a BIS build where that buff, plus the exact right amount of SPS on gear, would result in that 15s charge time dropping to 12.5s, changing Minor Arcana from 'every 6th GCD' to 'every 5th GCD'. And maybe that extra potency from having more cards, outweighs the potency gained by Crit, since AST's damage potencies are so low and Crit's effect is not as impactful with lower potency numbers...? I think it'd be quite interesting for a SPS/Piety build to be competitive with the usual Crit/DHit meta we usually face

Again ty for reading, nothing makes idea-makers like me (and others who make idea) happy quite like being told 'hey that's pretty good actually'.

[Eastwall]

That's the funniest response l fished out, lol

[ty_taurus]

That's the funniest response l fished out, lol

To be transparent in regards to my response, it wasn't directly a counter to what you were saying. I also believe you shouldn't need to master your job in order to enjoy the game, which is how the entire game currently operates and has always operated, even hard content. You do not need to parse pink or orange to beat savage. I've raiding with people who were learning new jobs for the first time just to try something new, and we still won. Someone in my savage raid group swapped from Black Mage to Ninja for the fun of it despite having very little experience with Ninja. Which is exactly why it makes no sense to me why job design continues to be childproofed over and over again when it's simply not necessary. It doesn't make it easier for the common player to clear content, it just takes away the fun from the people who want to develop their skills and master their job beyond what the game asks you to do. And I don't think you were challenging that logic specifically, just that your choice of words immediately made me think of the opposite--how the game wants me to be a bad healer in order for me to enjoy healing. The better I get, the worse my gameplay feels.

[Merrigan]

That's the funniest response l fished out, lol

Tss tss. Troll are meant to stay ambiguous, don't admit your trolling mister.

[Tigore]

I do agree that the altered Astrodyne idea would be better as an additional mechanic to manage with the cards compared to a detonating Combust DoT, Roe. The combusting DoT idea could even be carried over to SCH actually. Although it would probably be in the form of asking if SMN gives up Fester / Painflare to SCH and gets a new mechanic to fit with their new model better. Although that's another thread to discuss if the SMNs are happy or not. The additional idea to make Astrodyne scale with Spell Speed does sound interesting too. We kind of do have too much reliance on Critical Strike and Direct Hit being the king stats most of the time for every role. Also, is Astrodyne still remaining an oGCD or will it be a GCD? You may have a point that memorizing 12 card patterns may be enough justification to keep Astrodyne an oGCD with slightly more Malefic spam and Combust removed.

I also hear ya for DRG with the Dragon Sight targeting. I have tried it a few times in PuGs and the map parties. Sometimes I unintentionally delay the cooldown slightly because I use the mouse click on the party list to target the player. It hasn't been enough to cause more "elusive deaths" on me, but there are quite a few jumps and mirage dives to do at the start with Battle Litany.

[ForsakenRoe]

Also, is Astrodyne still remaining an oGCD or will it be a GCD? You may have a point that memorizing 12 card patterns may be enough justification to keep Astrodyne an oGCD with slightly more Malefic spam and Combust removed.

I'd imagine that the 'ideal role' would be displayed on the gauge, like how the border is coloured in the current game to show if a card is melee or ranged, and the seal appears above the card to show which seal it generates. So a small icon on each side to indicate, eg a shield for Bole saying 'this is best on a tank', or a staff on Spire to show 'this is for caster', etc, and the same for the Minor cards, would help to show the role/card link and help speed up the 'learning process' somewhat. But for your question of OGCD vs GCD, I think it'd be best to either have it as an OGCD, or even to swap it to a trait effect of sorts, where it automatically grants the buff upon generating the third seal. Definitely not a GCD though, it'd slow the gameplay down too much, and it runs the issue WOW ran into for a while, where it just doesn't feel good to use a GCD on a timed buff, then have to wait the GCD recast time while that buff is ticking down, unable to make use of it. For the sake of player agency, in cases where you can't get 100% uptime, the versatility of being able to choose when to activate the buff would mean that OGCD is probably the better choice. Plus it means preserving more of the APM AST is known for

At this point, I'd use 'detonating DOT' as the basis for a new job, and do it properly, instead of hamfisting it back onto AST or another current Job. Dropdown to save space again:

I mulled over an idea of a Time Mage DPS, where you'd juggle two gauges, tentatively named Matter and Antimatter, which would have interactions between two spell sets (similar to RDM), one being DOT related (collapse, extend, etc) and the other being based around long recast timers that are reduced by using other skills (eg a 1min CD, who's CD is reduced by 2s if you cast another Antimatter skill).

Successfully juggling the two gauges, and keeping them relatively balanced, would build a 'Singularity', which can be spent akin to the RDM Melee Combo to deal massive damage, scaling based on the two gauge amounts spent. The idea would be, instead of RDM where you can pool up your resources for burst window, you'd want to purposely spend a lower amount of gauge on a smaller Singularity (eg 40/40) at an earlier point in the fight, so that you have the moment you hit 100/100 line up with the burst window correctly (I think MCH can do this with it's robot, so that's the inspiration).

I was very inspired in thematics/VFX by the 'Umbral/Astral Tilt' from P12S, the pure black/white VFX when towers are failed, when they are taken correctly, and the lasers from the adds on the sides so a similar theme would work well for such a job I believe, White with Black for Matter skills, Black with White for Antimatter. Also, there's loads of cool names from Astronomy to use for CDs and skill names. Syzygy, Equinox, SolarFlare, Eclipse, Retrograde, etc.