Cure and it's Equivalents need to be axed

[Solakor]

Think of it like this:
The only healer new players can play out of the gate is CNJ/WHM.
They get their first oGCD, Benediction, at 50. It can heal a target 100% and has a 3-minute cooldown.
They get their first Lily-spell, Afflatus Solace, at 52.
Going from their first 50 levels, they don't have a special mechanic yet and their first oGCD heal sounds powerful and has a longer cooldown, making it seem like oGCD heals are emergency buttons.
Spamming Cure has kind of been ingrained into them, especially if they are in the mindset that they have to diligently focus only on healing or else the party will wipe if they aren't kept at 100%. (⋟﹏⋞)

Tbh I think gcd healing SHOULD be the norm and ogcd fast/panic heals if healers actually wanted to focus on healing. But as many here have already said if the game doesn't demand ppl to use any skills with fail states then the cure spammers won't stop spamming. So either you make the game harder or ppl will keep doing it. SE has clearly made their decision with the tuning and class kits.

[Jeeqbit]

Tbh I think gcd healing SHOULD be the norm and ogcd fast/panic heals if healers actually wanted to focus on healing.

Not going to happen while damage GCDs compete with heal GCDs.

[finalchlomega]

Maybe it is just the way I tank that means it doesn't matter.

A tank can take 75% of the burden, 50% or the burden or 25% of the burden, to give some examples.

75% of the burden would be where I tank with the assumption I will get no heals at all. I manage my cooldowns in such a way that if I get no heals, I will survive for absolutely ages, for example using mitigation, arm's length, then invuln, then kiting. By that point I've given them 20-60 seconds to heal me at least, depending on the incoming damage. Obviously this isn't relevant except in old dungeons or leveling dungeons which hit hard. I get by on a rare Cure spell if I do this. I just need that little, 1% of effort by the healer to survive.

50% would be where I'm doing a good amount of work but could do more, but I don't because the healer is meeting me half way and doing more than I need them to.

25% would be where the healer is literally doing everything, to the point I don't even need cooldowns because they are spamming heals on me, so I don't even bother doing anything.

I tank with the assumption I am carrying 75% of the burden normally, so if I run into a healer that is "unable to keep us alive", they still manage to keep me alive because 1 cure spell every 20 seconds is really all I need if I juggle my abilities just right.

While the point you are making is valid, I made this discussion not to talk about tank/party kits, and instead focusing on the healers. I feel that others have identified the problem better than I myself did, in that the actual design of the game is what is causing this sort of behaviour. I believe Cure is part of the problem in that the game refuses to make itself harder in later levels enables this sort of behaviour from healers, when everyone should be putting their 100% into clearing a duty, even if it is an easy one.

As a counter to your point about my saying "healers unable to keep us alive", if you are not a Warrior below level 82, or a Dark Knight which has very little self sustain even above level 82, then you would notice the lack of meaningful healing even when using all of your mitigations, as say 10% for a Cure and 20% for a Cure II is a meaningful difference, ignoring all other buffs and healing increases.

[Eastwall]

But you.can always vote to kick cure bot. "play style difference" is a valid reason. You just got to hope they don't learn the loot holding trick.

[WantlessYoYo]

And what do you think is gonna change when they get rid of cure 1? They spam cure 2 and run out of mp and then you come here saying they need to get rid of that skill as well. This is a never ending issue and unless you give ppl the "i win" button they will keep doing this. The homogenization that has already happened didn't help this issue at all but it sure as hell made the game less interesting to play.

Run out of MP leads to Lucid dream, once that is gone leads to the rest of the kit
Hey, I have this tool available without the use of using mana!
Wich leads to then playing more with said tools and not relying purely on the first one

Of course this is ideal, but you get where I come from

[finalchlomega]

But you.can always vote to kick cure bot. "play style difference" is a valid reason. You just got to hope they don't learn the loot holding trick.

Unfortunately, the people who do this always seem to queue with other people and in a light party instance they always hold the majority, and a lot of the time other people are content to let it slide.

[strawberrycake]

Bit of a rant and a cry of despair, but Cure and Benefic need to be removed as players are somehow going throughout the entire game, hitting level 90 and having beaten the MSQ by spamming Cure, and when told that they should use another skill, in a brief but not unkind way, they lose their minds and double down on using the spell, with support from the party swinging towards the healer not playing to the best of their ability, and this rant isn't even going into the issue of healers not doing DPS (which is a case for renaming healers into "Supports" in my opinion).

In my time of playing, once Cure II or Benefic II is unlocked, it is absolutely obsolete and becomes even more worthless once Afflatus Solace and Essential Dignity comes into play, not to mention the fact that there is regularly a second healer which have instant heals that come off cooldown fairly quickly. Even in Ultimates and Criterion Savage they've never been needed and just take up valuable action slots, and trait slots due to Freecure and Enhanced Benefic.

The argument also applies to Physick and Diagnosis (not Eukrasian Diagnosis but because of how Sage works it would be harder to work around) as Scholar has Lustrate plus Dissipation and Sage has Druochole plus Rhizomata.

I apologise for the rant but I needed to say something as this has not been just a one off occurance, but something that has been happening since Shadowbringers, if not Stormblood.

My partner and I once killed Eden Titan normal by two tanking it when the entire party died, we were GNB and DRK. This was when Edens Titan was concurrent content.

Let that settle in.

XIV as a whole is a joke when it comes to what is possible when you have the skill for it.

[strawberrycake]

But you.can always vote to kick cure bot. "play style difference" is a valid reason. You just got to hope they don't learn the loot holding trick.

I was doing Orboone and had a co-healer who wasn't healing, when I went to vote kick the party told me I was being a Karen, luckily they knew it was reportable and agreed.

[Espon]

Pruning abilities isn't going to make bad players play better. They're bad players because they're not willing to learn their job and improve, not because they still have access to Cure at level 90.

Removing the ability and traits outright isn't going to mean they'll give you something new, since jobs already have a varying number of skills and traits, even for ones released at the same time.

[Kitty_Cat]

Bit of a rant and a cry of despair, but Cure and Benefic need to be removed as players are somehow going throughout the entire game, hitting level 90 and having beaten the MSQ by spamming Cure, and when told that they should use another skill, in a brief but not unkind way, they lose their minds and double down on using the spell, with support from the party swinging towards the healer not playing to the best of their ability, and this rant isn't even going into the issue of healers not doing DPS (which is a case for renaming healers into "Supports" in my opinion).

In my time of playing, once Cure II or Benefic II is unlocked, it is absolutely obsolete and becomes even more worthless once Afflatus Solace and Essential Dignity comes into play, not to mention the fact that there is regularly a second healer which have instant heals that come off cooldown fairly quickly. Even in Ultimates and Criterion Savage they've never been needed and just take up valuable action slots, and trait slots due to Freecure and Enhanced Benefic.

The argument also applies to Physick and Diagnosis (not Eukrasian Diagnosis but because of how Sage works it would be harder to work around) as Scholar has Lustrate plus Dissipation and Sage has Druochole plus Rhizomata.

I apologise for the rant but I needed to say something as this has not been just a one off occurance, but something that has been happening since Shadowbringers, if not Stormblood.

Better yet, the skill Cure should have just increased in potency as you level, negating the need to add higher potency versions in the first place.

Cure III seems to often get novice healers confused for example, I see them at 80+ use it miles away from me or the DPS, that skill should be removed and the potency of Medica could have just scaled up or down depending on your Duty (level/sync).

I really dislike the crazy amount of button bloat we have for those of us using a Controller.