Please remove MSQ dungeons from Mentor roulette

[Asako]

While you're at it, remove extremes too. Extremes are for established players looking for a greater (and optional) challenge, not for newer players that need help with progressing story. (Not to mention most of them past ARR will never get a bite on the DF anyway.)

If Extremes are for established players why does it pop so often in Mentor roulette then? There are a lot of new players out there looking to dip their toes into something bigger than Main Scenario and let's face it, Main Scenario teaches you nothing gameplay wise. In the almost 4k Mentor roulettes I've done, the best experiences are with new players in EX trials and I very rarely don't get the job done. Best of all, I love getting other mentors that moan and complain and they end up leaving, only for us to pass when we get a replacement.

Turns out most mentors are the problem in these roulettes because they unlock the content by undersizing it, then when it comes up in the roulette, they wet the bed and not wanting to be called out for being crap they just moan and leave blaming the sprouts to undersize it. Turns out a lot of sprouts aren't candy men that want the game played for them.

If you're leaving these instances or moaning at others to undersize it, the problem isn't the roulette, it's you being a mentor. The unlock criteria should 100% exclude undersizing unlocks.

[VictorSpoils]

If Extremes are for established players why does it pop so often in Mentor roulette then? There are a lot of new players out there looking to dip their toes into something bigger than Main Scenario and let's face it, Main Scenario teaches you nothing gameplay wise. In the almost 4k Mentor roulettes I've done, the best experiences are with new players in EX trials and I very rarely don't get the job done. Best of all, I love getting other mentors that moan and complain and they end up leaving, only for us to pass when we get a replacement.

Turns out most mentors are the problem in these roulettes because they unlock the content by undersizing it, then when it comes up in the roulette, they wet the bed and not wanting to be called out for being crap they just moan and leave blaming the sprouts to undersize it. Turns out a lot of sprouts aren't candy men that want the game played for them.

If you're leaving these instances or moaning at others to undersize it, the problem isn't the roulette, it's you being a mentor. The unlock criteria should 100% exclude undersizing unlocks.

There's just a whole slew of problems with Extreme trials being in the roulette:

1. Sprouts queue for ARR Extremes unaware of the fact that Party Finder is preferable, because you don't have to find a new group and start over when you time out. It's not their fault for not knowing (unless it's a masochist farming Rathalos scales), but it's a faulty practice that shouldn't be encouraged, especially with how empty PF is most of the time. That's also why only ARR trials show up.
2. Mentors are inevitably going to be unprepared since they're being thrown into a random Extreme and are expected to have all the mechanics memorized.
3. Party balance is all out of whack. Very often will there be 1-2 mentors with 6 sprouts, and it almost always grabs DPS mentors, making it much harder to get through fights.
4. People generally don't use food/potions, and most sprouts aren't even looking at guides. This would be unacceptable in later/modern Extremes, and if that etiquette can't be emulated then why bother doing them synced? Should ARR Extremes be fodder regardless?
5. If the roulette is strictly meant to fill party slots and not actually teach mechanics like in MSQ dungeons, then it's no surprise there are going to be mentors that don't want to deal with Extremes. Complaining about mentors leaving these duties isn't any different from mentors complaining about getting them.

[Asako]

There's just a whole slew of problems with Extreme trials being in the roulette:

Let's address your points.

1: Sprouts should be able to queue for whatever they want to queue for regardless if it's the norm or not.
2: Mentors must previously clear all content before the roulette is opened to them. You have cleared the fight and thus have a general understanding of whats going on. No one is expecting you to know everything.
3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.
4: Using Food or Potions is not required in any content outside of Ultimate and first few week Savage. Extreme is no where near that level, also due to the numbers crunch and ilvl scaling you massively outdps all Extremes up until at least Shinryu. For ARR and HW you absolutely nuke the trials to the point you can tell new players to focus more on mechanics than damage because it doesn't matter.
5: Whether people leave or not literally doesn't matter, once you are in you are in, the game will try and fill in progress parties faster so just getting in is a massive boon. As for the teaching part, just make some guides online if you want to be a teacher, when you apply to be a mentor it tells you there and then that you are there to back fill and do so in a positive manner. No where does it say you have to be always teaching players all the boss mechanics. That's just what you implied when you put on the crown.

If anything they should just remove all rewards to do with Mentor so we don't have to listen to people complain because they got something they didn't want as it takes too long all while they blame it on not being what they signed up for.

[Espon]

3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.

I seem to frequently get Ramuh Extreme and have run into way too many tanks that cannot seem to grasp the concept of needing to collect 3 orbs to not die or to not PROVOKE THE BOSS WHILE STANDING IN THE RAID no matter how many times you tell them what to do. I dunno what's more baffling: the fact that I get this trial way more often than any other or that I usually end up with braindead tanks on this fight.

[Asako]

I seem to frequently get Ramuh Extreme and have run into way too many tanks that cannot seem to grasp the concept of needing to collect 3 orbs to not die or to not PROVOKE THE BOSS WHILE STANDING IN THE RAID no matter how many times you tell them what to do. I dunno what's more baffling: the fact that I get this trial way more often than any other or that I usually end up with braindead tanks on this fight.

I get this one a lot also. Getting the tanks to swap isn't really an issue as once you explain things to them it's handy enough. Use se.5 macros to help remind them at the 25s mark. Personally I have more issue trying to get mentors to bait the Chaos. You ask the ranged DPS / Healers [whomever is more experienced] to bait it and they look at you like you have 2 heads. Once you start baiting the chaos most of the damage from the fight just disappears as you have 50% of the mechanic resolved correclty each time. People not wanting to read chat isn't exclusive to sprouts.

[VictorSpoils]

Let's address your points.

1: Sprouts should be able to queue for whatever they want to queue for regardless if it's the norm or not.
2: Mentors must previously clear all content before the roulette is opened to them. You have cleared the fight and thus have a general understanding of whats going on. No one is expecting you to know everything.
3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.
4: Using Food or Potions is not required in any content outside of Ultimate and first few week Savage. Extreme is no where near that level, also due to the numbers crunch and ilvl scaling you massively outdps all Extremes up until at least Shinryu. For ARR and HW you absolutely nuke the trials to the point you can tell new players to focus more on mechanics than damage because it doesn't matter.
5: Whether people leave or not literally doesn't matter, once you are in you are in, the game will try and fill in progress parties faster so just getting in is a massive boon. As for the teaching part, just make some guides online if you want to be a teacher, when you apply to be a mentor it tells you there and then that you are there to back fill and do so in a positive manner. No where does it say you have to be always teaching players all the boss mechanics. That's just what you implied when you put on the crown.

If anything they should just remove all rewards to do with Mentor so we don't have to listen to people complain because they got something they didn't want as it takes too long all while they blame it on not being what they signed up for.

1. That's a nice dream and all, but come HW they're forced to adapt to the norm.
2. You just said mentors undersize the Extremes. If so, they wouldn't have a basic understanding of the fights after all.
3. IDK what role mentors queue as the most, I just know tank/healer mentors didn't get sent to Extremes as often. As was pointed out, Ramuh is miserable for new tanks, and healers most of all need to not die in any of these fights.
4. Food is absolutely used in Extremes, even older synced ones (see BLU achievements), and throughout current Savage tiers and BLU Savage. It would be foolish to sacrifice such easy free HP and damage when there are still looming damage checks and plenty of ways to screw up. If we're not even concerned about how older Extremes are tuned, then it diminishes the need of doing them synced.
5. There's also the fact that the crown is automatically turned on, which is treated like a giant reticle. If they did remove the rewards, then MSQ/Extremes/Guildhests would have to go with them.

[Fynlar]

If Extremes are for established players why does it pop so often in Mentor roulette then?

I'm saying what they should be for. It's also really only the ARR extremes (and Rathalos) that come up "often"; I have Astrope and I can barely recall ever getting anything else from HW and beyond.

There are a lot of new players out there looking to dip their toes into something bigger than Main Scenario

Which is fine. They still shouldn't be using randos in the DF for it. They only do it because that's what the game literally tells them to do, and they don't know any better yet in ARR (hence why HW extremes and beyond are much rarer to show up)

and let's face it, Main Scenario teaches you nothing gameplay wise.

Disagree. Seasoned players just take what they taught for granted.

In the almost 4k Mentor roulettes I've done, the best experiences are with new players in EX trials and I very rarely don't get the job done. Best of all, I love getting other mentors that moan and complain and they end up leaving, only for us to pass when we get a replacement.

Ok

Turns out most mentors are the problem in these roulettes because they unlock the content by undersizing it, then when it comes up in the roulette, they wet the bed and not wanting to be called out for being crap they just moan and leave blaming the sprouts to undersize it. Turns out a lot of sprouts aren't candy men that want the game played for them.

Don't think your assessment is necessarily correct. I know exactly how Ramuh EX works and how to do the fight. What I don't trust is for rando parties to have the coordination to pull it off smoothly enough to be worth my time. I've had enough runs of this that just ended up being nearly 60 minutes of wasted time to want to bother anymore.

If you're leaving these instances or moaning at others to undersize it, the problem isn't the roulette, it's you being a mentor. The unlock criteria should 100% exclude undersizing unlocks.

No, the problem is definitely with the game. Either for allowing extreme content on a "mentor" roulette, or the duty list encouraging new players to DF extreme content like any other duty which fails to actually properly convey their difficulty.

Also, having cleared a duty before without undersizing it is by no means an indication that you know the ins and outs of said duty by heart.