Please remove MSQ dungeons from Mentor roulette

[DiaDeem]

lol, nah.

[Asako]

There's just a whole slew of problems with Extreme trials being in the roulette:

Let's address your points.

1: Sprouts should be able to queue for whatever they want to queue for regardless if it's the norm or not.
2: Mentors must previously clear all content before the roulette is opened to them. You have cleared the fight and thus have a general understanding of whats going on. No one is expecting you to know everything.
3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.
4: Using Food or Potions is not required in any content outside of Ultimate and first few week Savage. Extreme is no where near that level, also due to the numbers crunch and ilvl scaling you massively outdps all Extremes up until at least Shinryu. For ARR and HW you absolutely nuke the trials to the point you can tell new players to focus more on mechanics than damage because it doesn't matter.
5: Whether people leave or not literally doesn't matter, once you are in you are in, the game will try and fill in progress parties faster so just getting in is a massive boon. As for the teaching part, just make some guides online if you want to be a teacher, when you apply to be a mentor it tells you there and then that you are there to back fill and do so in a positive manner. No where does it say you have to be always teaching players all the boss mechanics. That's just what you implied when you put on the crown.

If anything they should just remove all rewards to do with Mentor so we don't have to listen to people complain because they got something they didn't want as it takes too long all while they blame it on not being what they signed up for.

[Espon]

3: Whilst it's true more people queue as DPS on mentor there are still plenty of us Tank healer Mentors out there to make up for it. Regardless, I'd rather have an experienced player on DPS than on Tank as most Tanking in this game is stand still and hit boss. I've never in all my time doing mentor roulettes had as issue with who was or was not a Tank / Healer. Some are better than others, but as long as they are willing to read chat then it's not issue.

I seem to frequently get Ramuh Extreme and have run into way too many tanks that cannot seem to grasp the concept of needing to collect 3 orbs to not die or to not PROVOKE THE BOSS WHILE STANDING IN THE RAID no matter how many times you tell them what to do. I dunno what's more baffling: the fact that I get this trial way more often than any other or that I usually end up with braindead tanks on this fight.

[Asako]

I seem to frequently get Ramuh Extreme and have run into way too many tanks that cannot seem to grasp the concept of needing to collect 3 orbs to not die or to not PROVOKE THE BOSS WHILE STANDING IN THE RAID no matter how many times you tell them what to do. I dunno what's more baffling: the fact that I get this trial way more often than any other or that I usually end up with braindead tanks on this fight.

I get this one a lot also. Getting the tanks to swap isn't really an issue as once you explain things to them it's handy enough. Use se.5 macros to help remind them at the 25s mark. Personally I have more issue trying to get mentors to bait the Chaos. You ask the ranged DPS / Healers [whomever is more experienced] to bait it and they look at you like you have 2 heads. Once you start baiting the chaos most of the damage from the fight just disappears as you have 50% of the mechanic resolved correclty each time. People not wanting to read chat isn't exclusive to sprouts.

[sindriiisgaming]

Green Leafs do not need my help watching cutscenes, but other Green Leafs do need my help with actual other content. I'm happy to coach seven of you through any extreme trial, but not cutscenes.

mentor pony here

so ive gone over before in a thread all the things wrong with mentor system, but in general my biggest gripe was that... i didnt feel like the ppl i was helping needed it.. and even tho i was happy to help them beat nidhog ex or whatever it was.. it was mostly just spamming trails and dungeons and i didnt really enjoy it at all. its a lot of work to fix mentor but i hope they do make an effort. i have an older post with some ideas if you want to look about and share your thoughts

[Xirean]

I'm actually rather curious how many people would be ok with mentor system if it didn't have the name mentor at all and completely discarded any notion of teaching all together. There's a section of mentors that want to do Extremes almost exclusively and another section that want next to nothing to do with them at all. Personally I don't think either side is wrong in their mindset. I just think the two ideas being combined is not helping anyone. The roulette itself works well as a backfill for all kinds of content and I would not want that to go away, but I wonder if things would be improved if Extremes had their own roulette to themselves or in addition to the mentor roulette. I feel like the idea of such a system change will become more necessary as more expansions are included within the free trial and more players que into Extremes as their only option given that they have no Party Finder access.

[Shougun]

mentor pony here

so ive gone over before in a thread all the things wrong with mentor system, but in general my biggest gripe was that... i didnt feel like the ppl i was helping needed it.. and even tho i was happy to help them beat nidhog ex or whatever it was.. it was mostly just spamming trails and dungeons and i didnt really enjoy it at all. its a lot of work to fix mentor but i hope they do make an effort. i have an older post with some ideas if you want to look about and share your thoughts

What if mentor roulette was changed to the 'y queue so long' roulette, opened to everyone (and the achievement). Then mentor gets some sort of direct help.

Wonder how well a dark souls blue ring like system would work... If you need help you initiate the bat signal and mentors of the appropriate type are notified. Perhaps give them a GM like ability to arrive when needed. Even into instances that are 'full'.

[Toutatis]

so ive gone over before in a thread all the things wrong with mentor system, but in general my biggest gripe was that... i didnt feel like the ppl i was helping needed it.. and even tho i was happy to help them beat nidhog ex or whatever it was..

That's because Mentor roulette is essentially a filling roulette to shorten the queue, regardless of whether or not there are sprouts (and the sprout icon doesn't mean much these days...it could even be another mentor playing an alt). The game dispatches you according to your chosen role wherever there is a spot to be filled.

[Fynlar]

If Extremes are for established players why does it pop so often in Mentor roulette then?

I'm saying what they should be for. It's also really only the ARR extremes (and Rathalos) that come up "often"; I have Astrope and I can barely recall ever getting anything else from HW and beyond.

There are a lot of new players out there looking to dip their toes into something bigger than Main Scenario

Which is fine. They still shouldn't be using randos in the DF for it. They only do it because that's what the game literally tells them to do, and they don't know any better yet in ARR (hence why HW extremes and beyond are much rarer to show up)

and let's face it, Main Scenario teaches you nothing gameplay wise.

Disagree. Seasoned players just take what they taught for granted.

In the almost 4k Mentor roulettes I've done, the best experiences are with new players in EX trials and I very rarely don't get the job done. Best of all, I love getting other mentors that moan and complain and they end up leaving, only for us to pass when we get a replacement.

Ok

Turns out most mentors are the problem in these roulettes because they unlock the content by undersizing it, then when it comes up in the roulette, they wet the bed and not wanting to be called out for being crap they just moan and leave blaming the sprouts to undersize it. Turns out a lot of sprouts aren't candy men that want the game played for them.

Don't think your assessment is necessarily correct. I know exactly how Ramuh EX works and how to do the fight. What I don't trust is for rando parties to have the coordination to pull it off smoothly enough to be worth my time. I've had enough runs of this that just ended up being nearly 60 minutes of wasted time to want to bother anymore.

If you're leaving these instances or moaning at others to undersize it, the problem isn't the roulette, it's you being a mentor. The unlock criteria should 100% exclude undersizing unlocks.

No, the problem is definitely with the game. Either for allowing extreme content on a "mentor" roulette, or the duty list encouraging new players to DF extreme content like any other duty which fails to actually properly convey their difficulty.

Also, having cleared a duty before without undersizing it is by no means an indication that you know the ins and outs of said duty by heart.

[Ravenblade1979]

Green Leafs do not need my help watching cutscenes, but other Green Leafs do need my help with actual other content. I'm happy to coach seven of you through any extreme trial, but not cutscenes.

Lemme see. So you don't want to do msq scenario. Possibly because cutscenes are forced due to the playerbase in the past who would boot sprouts or force them to skip cutscenes as not to miss out on the fights or miss out on the fights due to watching cutscenes.

Ya got all rights not to queue it. So don't and help sprouts in the other dailies