Quitting ffxiv for good

[VerdeLuck]

Actually. Zero mental gymnastics. You are proposing that an alliance raid, endgame content, should be able to be completed without a tank role in a game that has three key roles. A tank, the healers, and the DPS.

Does that sound crazy to you?

It still has a tank though, there are 2 other tanks in the instance. It just doesn't make 1 alliance absolutely miserable because the other players won't wait for them to get a fill or because they have a bad tank.
Seriously you're doing some weird mental gymnastics and attributing a lot to my post that's definitely not in it.

[Ath192]

It still has a tank though, there are 2 other tanks in the instance. It just doesn't make 1 alliance absolutely miserable because the other players won't wait for them to get a fill or because they have a bad tank.
Seriously you're doing some weird mental gymnastics and attributing a lot to my post that's definitely not in it.

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

[Menriq]

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

The flaw with this is that the too much emphasis gets put on one role. In your scenario, if you get bad DPS or a bad healer, there are others to pick up the slack. If you get a bad tank, then now you are impacting everyone else because that bad tank can hold the alliance hostage basically. You would have to go back to the standard party of 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS to take that emphasis away. However, now you have 6 tanks, so at this point, it would seem like overkill. At the same time, if you add in DPS checks, without damage meters, how do you know who is not carrying their weight? It seems that SE is going with a more casual approach, similar to WoW LFR, in that it's designed to not let you fail unless you really try to.

What I do see is if you want mechanics for people, this last raid tier had a lot of body checks, which means mechanic checks. You do savage, so I don't need to go into detail. However, as I'm sure you've also experienced, there a lot of people that don't put a lot of effort into the game or are just not that good, and this seems like an intentional design pattern by SE for the way things currently are.

[Ath192]

The flaw with this is that the too much emphasis gets put on one role. In your scenario, if you get bad DPS or a bad healer, there are others to pick up the slack. If you get a bad tank, then now you are impacting everyone else because that bad tank can hold the alliance hostage basically. You would have to go back to the standard party of 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS to take that emphasis away. However, now you have 6 tanks, so at this point, it would seem like overkill. At the same time, if you add in DPS checks, without damage meters, how do you know who is not carrying their weight? It seems that SE is going with a more casual approach, similar to WoW LFR, in that it's designed to not let you fail unless you really try to.

What I do see is if you want mechanics for people, this last raid tier had a lot of body checks, which means mechanic checks. You do savage, so I don't need to go into detail. However, as I'm sure you've also experienced, there a lot of people that don't put a lot of effort into the game or are just not that good, and this seems like an intentional design pattern by SE for the way things currently are.

100% correct, it is intentional, and that is why people are pushing back and in this particular thread, quitting. A lot of us are not liking this new direction. Thankfully it does seem like they are aware of it considering what another user posted earlier here with the Chinese producer.

I don't expect this game to become something that everyone has to be at the edge of their seat all the time. All I expect from the game is that it doesn't make its playerbase feel irrelevant or redundant. For some danger to actually exist.

[Striker44]

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

It seems you're looking for a different game from a different age, or perhaps just not yet letting sink in the variety of difficulty levels that exist within this game. Maybe go try Wildstar - they've dedicated themselves to making an MMO that's "old school" in having difficult dungeons, required grouping, etc....oh wait, that's right, they had to shut down because their playerbase was so small it couldn't sustain itself. The simple reality is that today's primary MMO demographic is not looking for the base-level of the game to be a wipe-fest. There are multiple levels of difficulty, even in a non-raid-centric game like FFXIV, above the base level that have the "danger" you seem to desire. I encourage you to try it out if you haven't yet. But your solution is to risk turning off a much larger number of people by making the base-game cater to what you want, instead of doing the content already designed for it.

I'll give another recent example. Destiny 2 seems to have focused on its "elite" gamers and streamers in the current expansion. Basic patrol zones have damage sponges, enemies that will one-shot you from far away, lost sectors with tons of adds, and even the first "step up" in difficulty forces your ilvl (equivalent) to be weaker than your opponents (whereas in the past this only happened at a higher difficulty step). The end result? The company just laid off a significant portion of its staff because so many players have left and pre-orders for the next expansion came in far below expectations.

Why do I say this? In another post, you mention that some people here are quitting. But guess what - many more are staying and joining. Make the base game at the difficulty you want, and many more would quit (and not be replaced).

Edit:

Now lets say you go into dead ends just move away from the big telegraphed AOEs but you don't attack and the trusts kill the boss. Did you feel like you were needed?

I think we might be on to something here. The impression I'm getting is that you're someone who feels that unless you needed to be at the top of your game the entire fight, then everything was meaningless and unenjoyable. If that's accurate, you're certainly welcome to feel that way. But I'd have to say that's probably very different than most people's experience. Take me, for example. As long as I'm doing the dance and engaging in the fight, I have fun. I still dodge the mechanics even though technically I could just sit there and absorb a few, because I'm just having fun playing the game.

[Ath192]

It seems you're looking for a different game from a different age, or perhaps just not yet letting sink in the variety of difficulty levels that exist within this game. Maybe go try Wildstar - they've dedicated themselves to making an MMO that's "old school" in having difficult dungeons, required grouping, etc....oh wait, that's right, they had to shut down because their playerbase was so small it couldn't sustain itself. The simple reality is that today's primary MMO demographic is not looking for the base-level of the game to be a wipe-fest. There are multiple levels of difficulty, even in a non-raid-centric game like FFXIV, above the base level that have the "danger" you seem to desire. I encourage you to try it out if you haven't yet. But your solution is to risk turning off a much larger number of people by making the base-game cater to what you want, instead of doing the content already designed for it.

I'll give another recent example. Destiny 2 seems to have focused on its "elite" gamers and streamers in the current expansion. Basic patrol zones have damage sponges, enemies that will one-shot you from far away, lost sectors with tons of adds, and even the first "step up" in difficulty forces your ilvl (equivalent) to be weaker than your opponents (whereas in the past this only happened at a higher difficulty step). The end result? The company just laid off a significant portion of its staff because so many players have left and pre-orders for the next expansion came in far below expectations.

Why do I say this? In another post, you mention that some people here are quitting. But guess what - many more are staying and joining. Make the base game at the difficulty you want, and many more would quit (and not be replaced).

Edit:



I think we might be on to something here. The impression I'm getting is that you're someone who feels that unless you needed to be at the top of your game the entire fight, then everything was meaningless and unenjoyable. If that's accurate, you're certainly welcome to feel that way. But I'd have to say that's probably very different than most people's experience. Take me, for example. As long as I'm doing the dance and engaging in the fight, I have fun. I still dodge the mechanics even though technically I could just sit there and absorb a few, because I'm just having fun playing the game.

Both of the examples you mentioned had issues beyond gameplay that affected their performance, and in fact, upon researching Destiny it seems like the gameplay is receiving good press and people are liking that aspect of it. So I don't think you can prove that difficulty was the reason why. I could cite counter examples like Elden Ring. Here is a snip of an article praising its gameplay for lightfall:

There are major improvements here
There are problems with Lightfall, and it’s hard to recommend the campaign right now. However, I don’t want to leave this story without saying that Destiny 2 as a game has seen a massive improvement with the expansion. The new build crafting system makes speccing out your Guardian deeper, more rewarding, and accessible. The Guardian Ranks finally provide a smooth onboarding experience for new players (something the community has been asking for over the last few years). I can confidently say that Destiny 2 as a game has never been in a better spot.

Season of Defiance, which launched alongside Lightfall, is fantastic as well. It’s a much more compelling tale than the one told in Lightfall, and comes with what might be the best seasonal activity Bungie has ever made. Various quality-of-life improvements have made their way into the game, too, finally fixing some fundamental problems with chasing loot you want, managing your inventory, and juggling an endless barrage of currencies. From a gameplay perspective, Lightfall is a huge win.

It’s the narrative that suffers. I’m hopeful that the upcoming Root of Nightmares raid pays off the story in a meaningful way, but it’s hard to imagine a world where delaying that conclusion makes the third act of Destiny 2‘s first saga better. My only hope is that The Final Shape, when it launches, retroactively makes Lightfall a better expansion.

Source:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...r%20Lightfall.


If we're also going to cite player counts here XIV just dropped to its lowest player count since Jan 2021 before the WOW exodus brought in a huge surge of players to the run up to Endwalker. So I would say the game isn't doing super hot, failed to capitalize on retaining the huge new growth and is receiving negative press currently. It will remain to be seen if Dawntrail will bring everyone back but we'll find out. I know people like to hate on steamcharts because not everyone uses steam but I fail to see how steam users differ from their non-steam counter parts so firmly believe the trends would be similar across the board.

My guess is that Dawntrail won't be as big as Endwalker and we'll slowly shrink unless the changes make the current playerbase more happy and press/players turn more positive once more.

[caffe_macchiato]

If we're also going to cite player counts here XIV just dropped to its lowest player count since Jan 2021 before the WOW exodus brought in a huge surge of players to the run up to Endwalker. So I would say the game isn't doing super hot, failed to capitalize on retaining the huge new growth and is receiving negative press currently. It will remain to be seen if Dawntrail will bring everyone back but we'll find out. I know people like to hate on steamcharts because not everyone uses steam but I fail to see how steam users differ from their non-steam counter parts so firmly believe the trends would be similar across the board.

My guess is that Dawntrail won't be as big as Endwalker and we'll slowly shrink unless the changes make the current playerbase more happy and press/players turn more positive once more.

There are some issues here:

1) According to the forums, Steam is a completely separate player base that has largely nothing to do with the rest of the game, so their numbers don't count at all. The official census is from Lucky Bancho, who shows that the player base is still exploding like it was in 2021. If you disagree, you will be called a troll, or worse, you will be called me.

2) Many people say that journalists are only accurate when they're saying good things about the game, since the good things are facts and the bad things are not. If a journo says something negative, then he or she is only doing it for clicks and page views.

3) Everyone generally agrees that Dawntrail will bring a ton of people back. There will be massive login queues and the game will be massively popular.

Keep in mind that we are in a designated "play other games" period. Yoshi-P even assigned us games that He wants us to play instead of FFXIV. Did you beat all of them? If not, you are not upholding His will and doing as He instructed. FFXIV is the "play other games" game where, during the officially designated period, you shall not play. Except you should, because there's an unlimited amount of things to do, and if you don't play, we will see you tomorrow you troll. Does that make sense?

[Boblawblah]

There are some issues here:

1) According to the forums, Steam is a completely separate player base that has largely nothing to do with the rest of the game, so their numbers don't count at all. The official census is from Lucky Bancho, who shows that the player base is still exploding like it was in 2021. If you disagree, you will be called a troll, or worse, you will be called me.

2) Many people say that journalists are only accurate when they're saying good things about the game, since the good things are facts and the bad things are not. If a journo says something negative, then he or she is only doing it for clicks and page views.

3) Everyone generally agrees that Dawntrail will bring a ton of people back. There will be massive login queues and the game will be massively popular.

Keep in mind that we are in a designated "play other games" period. Yoshi-P even assigned us games that He wants us to play instead of FFXIV. Did you beat all of them? If not, you are not upholding His will and doing as He instructed. FFXIV is the "play other games" game where, during the officially designated period, you shall not play. Except you should, because there's an unlimited amount of things to do, and if you don't play, we will see you tomorrow you troll. Does that make sense?

*angrily subs*

[caffe_macchiato]

*angrily subs*

"If you have a problem with the game, you WILL unsub!" "D-did you just unsub?? No, we WILL see you tomorrow! You will NOT unsub!" (all 13 pages of this thread)

[Aword3213]

*angrily subs*

It's like seeing heavily modded hardcore ERPer complaining about ERP and modding tools