Quitting ffxiv for good

[VerdeLuck]

This is hilarious reasoning. If the party comp is not met then that NA runs deserves to wipe over and over until they get a tank fill. It is an essential role.

The solution shouldn’t be the content should be doable. This is like arguing car manufacturers should make it so that the vehicle can reach its destination without tires.

Now luckily in virtual space devs can do anything, but that doesn’t mean they should make flashy light show with no risk because someone may disconnect.

News flash, if you lose a key team member in a multiplayer game you should be expected to lose. Not get handed the win. This is the problem with player entitlement in this game.

So if I get thrown a bad tank in an alliance raid I deserve to wipe for 90 minutes until the lockout ends?
No way, get out of here with that.

[Ath192]

So if I get thrown a bad tank in an alliance raid I deserve to wipe for 90 minutes until the lockout ends?
No way, get out of here with that.

You get out of here with that design philosophy. Yes, you either fill or vote abandon cause you tank left you. What’s next? Should the msq beat itself? Oh wait… it already does. You can probably let the trusts kill everything for you while you just emote at the bosses.

[VerdeLuck]

You get out of here with that design philosophy. Yes, you either fill or vote abandon cause you tank left you. What’s next? Should the msq beat itself? Oh wait… it already does. You can probably let the trusts kill everything for you while you just emote at the bosses.

What? What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to get "the game should beat itself" from me saying that the forgiveness of not getting instantly demolished if your tank DCs is good?
These forums are so weird sometimes rofl you guys really need to go outside. You guys can take any post talking about QoL or not immediately slapping the player for something they can't control as demanding the game completes itself and every reward is free. This is just like, weird.

[Ath192]

What? What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to get "the game should beat itself" from me saying that the forgiveness of not getting instantly demolished if your tank DCs is good?
These forums are so weird sometimes rofl you guys really need to go outside.

Actually. Zero mental gymnastics. You are proposing that an alliance raid, endgame content, should be able to be completed without a tank role in a game that has three key roles. A tank, the healers, and the DPS.

Does that sound crazy to you?

This is exactly the kind of people SE listened to when they were complaining about how hard the game was… I’m glad it is on display because this is no way to design a fun video game. Sorry.

[VerdeLuck]

Actually. Zero mental gymnastics. You are proposing that an alliance raid, endgame content, should be able to be completed without a tank role in a game that has three key roles. A tank, the healers, and the DPS.

Does that sound crazy to you?

It still has a tank though, there are 2 other tanks in the instance. It just doesn't make 1 alliance absolutely miserable because the other players won't wait for them to get a fill or because they have a bad tank.
Seriously you're doing some weird mental gymnastics and attributing a lot to my post that's definitely not in it.

[Ath192]

It still has a tank though, there are 2 other tanks in the instance. It just doesn't make 1 alliance absolutely miserable because the other players won't wait for them to get a fill or because they have a bad tank.
Seriously you're doing some weird mental gymnastics and attributing a lot to my post that's definitely not in it.

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

[Menriq]

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

The flaw with this is that the too much emphasis gets put on one role. In your scenario, if you get bad DPS or a bad healer, there are others to pick up the slack. If you get a bad tank, then now you are impacting everyone else because that bad tank can hold the alliance hostage basically. You would have to go back to the standard party of 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS to take that emphasis away. However, now you have 6 tanks, so at this point, it would seem like overkill. At the same time, if you add in DPS checks, without damage meters, how do you know who is not carrying their weight? It seems that SE is going with a more casual approach, similar to WoW LFR, in that it's designed to not let you fail unless you really try to.

What I do see is if you want mechanics for people, this last raid tier had a lot of body checks, which means mechanic checks. You do savage, so I don't need to go into detail. However, as I'm sure you've also experienced, there a lot of people that don't put a lot of effort into the game or are just not that good, and this seems like an intentional design pattern by SE for the way things currently are.

[Striker44]

The alliance raid, consisting of 3 full parties in order to be able to run should have mechanics for 3 full parties. That includes mechanics for 3 tanks. Not 1 tank and 2 AFKers or potential DCs. You are proposing terrible design because it isn't centered on making the game engaging for players but instead safe in case an occasional technical difficulty is encountered.

It seems you're looking for a different game from a different age, or perhaps just not yet letting sink in the variety of difficulty levels that exist within this game. Maybe go try Wildstar - they've dedicated themselves to making an MMO that's "old school" in having difficult dungeons, required grouping, etc....oh wait, that's right, they had to shut down because their playerbase was so small it couldn't sustain itself. The simple reality is that today's primary MMO demographic is not looking for the base-level of the game to be a wipe-fest. There are multiple levels of difficulty, even in a non-raid-centric game like FFXIV, above the base level that have the "danger" you seem to desire. I encourage you to try it out if you haven't yet. But your solution is to risk turning off a much larger number of people by making the base-game cater to what you want, instead of doing the content already designed for it.

I'll give another recent example. Destiny 2 seems to have focused on its "elite" gamers and streamers in the current expansion. Basic patrol zones have damage sponges, enemies that will one-shot you from far away, lost sectors with tons of adds, and even the first "step up" in difficulty forces your ilvl (equivalent) to be weaker than your opponents (whereas in the past this only happened at a higher difficulty step). The end result? The company just laid off a significant portion of its staff because so many players have left and pre-orders for the next expansion came in far below expectations.

Why do I say this? In another post, you mention that some people here are quitting. But guess what - many more are staying and joining. Make the base game at the difficulty you want, and many more would quit (and not be replaced).

Edit:

Now lets say you go into dead ends just move away from the big telegraphed AOEs but you don't attack and the trusts kill the boss. Did you feel like you were needed?

I think we might be on to something here. The impression I'm getting is that you're someone who feels that unless you needed to be at the top of your game the entire fight, then everything was meaningless and unenjoyable. If that's accurate, you're certainly welcome to feel that way. But I'd have to say that's probably very different than most people's experience. Take me, for example. As long as I'm doing the dance and engaging in the fight, I have fun. I still dodge the mechanics even though technically I could just sit there and absorb a few, because I'm just having fun playing the game.

[Boblawblah]

You get out of here with that design philosophy. Yes, you either fill or vote abandon cause you tank left you. What’s next? Should the msq beat itself? Oh wait… it already does. You can probably let the trusts kill everything for you while you just emote at the bosses.

You've tested this?

[Ath192]

You've tested this?

I have now. I am sad to inform you that this indeed happened. Originally I was going to test something I could do quicker like a boss in Sastasha but I thought maybe the first dungeon is just an intro so I decided to do something closer to what a player would experience after having putting in a good amount of hours into the game so I went into stone vigil and pulled the first boss and just went AFK. And wouldn't you know it, the scion marauder, conjurer and thaumaturge just killed it for me and healed any damage I took from just standing there not doing mechanics.

So I can only imagine how horrible this experience might be to any players trying out the game and this is what they get after 30 hours into it. And how does it make vets feel? To know you are just a prop, barely standing there, not needed, the dungeon would clear itself anyways.

Thank goodness these dungeons were harder when they came out and I did them because I wouldn't be able to stay if this was my experience trying out the game now. The worst part is vets get dragged into this all the time thanks to the roulettes as well. So we also get to experience a dungeon any random NPC can do just fine without us to share this amazing gameplay with the newer players as well.