Dawntrail - What abilities do you think need to be trimmed from the game?

[Ardeth]

ok so remove mitigations on healers because we have tanks to mitigate?
Remove Dps from tanks/healers because we have Dps to deal damage?

I think it's perfectly fine that tanks have limited forms of healing, such as sustain, such CDs Healing allies, which actually fits tanks like PLD and GNB, It shouldn't replace healers but the reason why we have no healer runs is more of the fact that healing in this game is so low that you really don't need healers, not that tanks have some healing abilities, you can actually have tanks have healing abilities while still requiring a healer for content, both aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm unsure why we need to remove tank healing from the game, I can understand reducing it in some instances, but this idea that we suddenly need to remove all forms of tank healing makes no sense and feels like people think that removing tank healing would suddenly fix healer?

It just feels to me that people think making tank worse will fix healer, when in reality both support roles need to be more defined in the first place, instead of boring dps with healing/mitigation on the side.

If you removed Warrior's healing, I would honestly never play tank again. The other 3 tanks suck in comparison. Dark Knight is boring, Paladin is too involved, and Gunbreaker is just a mess. I don't do endgame, so this is a casual perspective.

Also, yes, positionals can also die in a fire. I do them, but I watch people not do them every day to such a degree they're not something people as a whole want. Endgame people, sure, but those people aren't the majority.

That is all.

[GoatOfWar]

If you removed Warrior's healing, I would honestly never play tank again. The other 3 tanks suck in comparison. Dark Knight is boring, Paladin is too involved, and Gunbreaker is just a mess. I don't do endgame, so this is a casual perspective.

Also, yes, positionals can also die in a fire. I do them, but I watch people not do them every day to such a degree they're not something people as a whole want. Endgame people, sure, but those people aren't the majority.

That is all.

Drk wasn't boring when every tank had something going for them, but War mains want to do everything and be the best at everything. So now War is just a better Drk in every regard. It's what yall have asked for.

[Ardeth]

Drk wasn't boring when every tank had something going for them, but War mains want to do everything and be the best at everything. So now War is just a better Drk in every regard. It's what yall have asked for.

Oh, I'm not a Warrior main. I'm more of a Summoner main. But I also don't ask for anything involving class design in general. I think the only thing I said was having 3 more summons would be cool. I'm not like a min max authority. I'm just a guy, and those other 3 tanks aren't fun to play.

[StarRosie]

but War mains want to do everything and be the best at everything. So now War is just a better Drk in every regard. It's what yall have asked for.

As an actual WAR main. No, I don't want to do everything and be the best at everything. That's a huge broad stroke accusation. I just wanna fell cleave stuff till its dead and be way too angry to die. I wanted WAR to feel like WAR again and hey, it feels like WAR again. Cause being too angry to die and self healing has ALWAYS been WAR's thing. Except in Stormblood when they took Bloodbath away from WAR, nerfed it, and handed it to all the melee DPS and gave us nothing to replace it. It's just back when Bloodbath belonged to WAR, stuff actually hit the tank pretty hard. So Bloodbath's self healing was balanced out. They tried tip toeing around returning WAR to its roots in ShB, but Nascent started too restrictive. You HAD to cast it on a party member. Only near the middle to tail end of ShB did they relent and allow WAR to cast Nascent on themselves. Now we have Bloodwhetting, which is problematic, but only because stuff hits like marshmallows. If things hit like they did back in HW, we'd for the most part be fine.

The issue isn't that WAR became a better DRK, it's that DRK became a worse DRK. The loss of stuff like Dark Arts, is one example of this. It is incredibly obvious that SE has no god damn clue what to do with Dark Knight. Stuff like Enhanced Unmend, is a VERY clear indicator of this. DRK has been leaning on its "Top DPS Tank" label as an identity for a while now. And now that SE finally decided to up both WAR and PLD's damage, but not DRK's damage, it led to Dark Knight falling to last place and losing its one thing. Which is now making the reality of how badly SE has been bumbling DRK be very apparent to a lot of people. It's not that WAR needs to be torn down, but DRK needs to be either built back up or rebuilt entirely to clean up the mess it is right now.

[Shurrikhan]

Except in Stormblood when they took Bloodbath away from WAR, nerfed it, and handed it to all the melee DPS and gave us nothing to replace it.

Unchained/Inner Release + Steel Cyclone self-healing honestly did for dungeons about all that Bloodbath did, and roughly the same (just more burstily) for raids if we actually somehow needed that extra healing.

Nascent started too restrictive. You HAD to cast it on a party member.

At the time, you also didn't lose any personal healing for doing so. It's just that not casting it on an ally, even after that change, wasted half the healing. But it was certainly unnecessarily clunky.

The issue isn't that WAR became a better DRK, it's that DRK became a worse DRK.

But, yeah. This.

[StarRosie]

Unchained/Inner Release + Steel Cyclone self-healing honestly did for dungeons about all that Bloodbath did, and roughly the same (just more burstily) for raids if we actually somehow needed that extra healing.

Valid, though I still didn't like that it got ripped away with no replacement. Though that's more a personal thing I guess.

At the time, you also didn't lose any personal healing for doing so. It's just that not casting it on an ally, even after that change, wasted half the healing. But it was certainly unnecessarily clunky.

I never really felt this? Or maybe I do not remember it. I think I was just overall happy the clunky restriction was gone and didn't pay it much mind. So I'm curious what ya mean here.

But, yeah. This.

Yeah...yeeeeaaahhhhh....two of my best pals have been DRK mains since HW. And I've listened to a lot of rants from them about DRK this expac...

[Shurrikhan]

Valid, though I still didn't like that it got ripped away with no replacement.

That... was the replacement, though: Inner Release allowing you at least two extra Inner Beasts, and Steel Cyclone granting huge amounts of healing in itself in AoE.

I never really felt this? Or maybe I do not remember it. I think I was just overall happy the clunky restriction was gone and didn't pay it much mind. So I'm curious what ya mean here.

I meant just what I said. Using Nascent Flash on self just wasted Nascent Glint (half the total healing). You only got (and still only get) the same self-healing as when using it on an ally, without the 100% duplicated portion that would otherwise have gone to your ally.

You also had Inner Release + Inner Beast spam which I'd argue was stronger than Bloodbath ever was in raids.
I have brute forced my raid pugs into seeing new boss phases with it or managed to keep myself alive while someone was trying to scrape the healers off the floor.

Exactly. Same.

[StarRosie]

That... was the replacement, though: Inner Release allowing you at least two extra Inner Beasts, and Steel Cyclone granting huge amounts of healing in itself in AoE.

I...don't really see that as a replacement. That might be overall just a personal point of disagreement though. As that feels more a side effect of Inner Release's design, rather then direct intention. But again, that is just my look on it. I guess an agree to disagree part there?

I meant just what I said. Using Nascent Flash on self just wasted Nascent Glint (half the total healing). You only got (and still only get) the same self-healing as when using it on an ally, without the 100% duplicated portion that would otherwise have gone to your ally.

Ah, ok. I was thinking stupidly and didn't fully catch what you meant when reading that earlier. I was trying to think on how it effected the healing to me and came up blank. But, ok. Now my braincell has caught up.

[Absurdity]

Unchained/Inner Release + Steel Cyclone self-healing honestly did for dungeons about all that Bloodbath did, and roughly the same (just more burstily) for raids if we actually somehow needed that extra healing.

You also had Inner Release + Inner Beast spam which I'd argue was stronger than Bloodbath ever was in raids.
I have brute forced my raid pugs into seeing new boss phases with it or managed to keep myself alive while someone was trying to scrape the healers off the floor.

Valid, though I still didn't like that it got ripped away with no replacement. Though that's more a personal thing I guess.

That's simply the case for over half of warrior's kit in general, ripped out to be replaced with either "hurr durr big damage"-button or absolutely nothing.

I never really felt this? Or maybe I do not remember it. I think I was just overall happy the clunky restriction was gone and didn't pay it much mind. So I'm curious what ya mean here.

Nascent Flash in ShB did basically just the same thing it does now, the healing could just be either stronger or a lot weaker than the current version depending on how good your dps output was.
It wasn't really clunky, because the current NF isn't, and more so unnecessarily restrictive considering CBU3 removed the healing tools you had in Stormblood.