7.0 Tank Wishlist

[Wisteriafield]

In general

• Materia needs reworking, damage variance in DH isn't really that enjoyable (especially with it being so damn hard to get on non-dps)
• Crit needs to be reined in or just redone, because its overwhelming efficacy means anything that isn't Crit only ends up being "who's fighting for 2nd place?" (and in tanks' case, this is a given for DH lol), autocrit on skills is just a bandaid.
• A better way to scale and choose our gcd speed would be greatly appreciated
• For the love of god please no more big potency single hit skills I have to bank on critting
• Enemies need to be more receptive to being moved around to make it fun. Additionally, the amount of encounters that now just have gratuitous castbars that don't do anything but set up the next castbar also contributes to why moving bosses would be fun in theory... but not in practice.
• It's possible that the clunkiness of moving bosses is also connected to their massive hitboxes, since enemies tend not to move upon touching their target circle.
• In normal dungeons, its more reasonable that bosses tend not to hurt much from using mits on mobs beforehand (even then that's heavily debatable now that everyone at least has a 25s cd mit) but its especially noticeable in alliance raids that tanks really take no damage at all unless the boss's name is Diabolos Hollow, they really need to start upping raidwide damage in these in general, but at least have them start hitting all tanks with autos.

Let's go over some givens

• Any option that is weighed as offense vs sustain will always be favored toward offense, the offense means you want to hit it as much as possible than let it sit unused, but the defense means you might not have it on demand when you could actually use it, and designing a fight where it naturally lines up would be hamfisted (even if they really like to throw in tankswaps and mit points at 2min marks a lot lately).
• When an option has to be taken for defense instead of damage, people tend to see it as a punishment (ex. any GCD healing, aggro combos pre-stb)
• Adding charges to an ability means you decrease the frequency of using an ability in favor of cramming more of the same thing where it can be best maximized (DRK's Shadowbringer). The only exception is SAM's Tsubame Gaeshi due to not being able to use that on demand, which also affects Meikyo Shisui.
• Because SE doesn't want to walk back design decisions and implicitly admit that certain things weren't wholly thought-out, things can only be built on until it reaches critical mass and turns into something unrecognizable, ship of theseus style.
• Problematic elements of a job tend to get removed rather than revised.

Apparently there's a char limit to posts, huh. Let's continue.

[Wisteriafield]

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Gunbreaker is all I care about now and I have too much to say, this isn't really going to be organized coherently so bear with me please

Ultimately, the most pressing issue is being able to generate enough cartridges per minute

An additional 3 gcd extension(+continuations) to the Gnashing Fang combo that ends with generating 2 cartridges, slightly alleviating the stress of having to enter No Mercy with 3 cartridges vs at least 1 in Shadowbringers.

Changing Bloodfest to be able to generate cartridges in downtime.

Because Bloodfest would no longer be able to generate the cartridges we need in the opener to use Double Down (nor will they likely run-back the 2-cartridge cost), at least let us instance in with all cartridges filled.

If they're going to make Lion Heart the lv100 skill, they ought to give it the six-sided star treatment to at least give the animation a chance of playing out, I doubt this would be popular, but I'd personally like it. Though, again, I'd like if it were multiple instances of damage to avoid reliance on an all-or-nothing crit, could tie into the first point.

I'm of the (likely unpopular) opinion that single-weaving with more focus is more enjoyable than directionless double-weaving, both in a practical standpoint of leaving room for mitigating/allowing breathing room with ping and animation-wise. This is especially true for GNB due to continuation always being designed to follow-up its parent animation unlike... well, any other job in the game. It's why I like SAM, its what I like about GNB more than some alleged identity of being focused on double-weaves.

I'd rather leave continuation and pare off the excess, but apparently its really important to interrupt my smooth gnashing fang animations with blasting zone and rough divide. RD being such a small amount of damage but not enough to just ignore is tedious too, I envy DRG and DNC having free movement dashes like that.

Put Double Down as only available in NM since its 60s anyway, change its cd to 25s and you get 1 DD per NM still, but leeway to rearrange gcds without having to create a domino of pushing things back, such as a late buff (or in my case because I hate interrupting gnashing with a big attack even though it doesn't technically break my combo, I just don't like things intended as "finishers" being thrown in the middle but it's pragmatism)
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[Wisteriafield]

(...)
This is the same reason I dislike Blasting Zone, it has no impact, I rely on it critting, it's a plain damage ogcd that doesn't serve GNB's theme at all, but its also my highest ppm action. I'd rather it be given a Communio-like cast and line aoe to at least live up to its namesake in ff8, but that would throw off the rotation. For some reason, this skill is still only 3y despite continuation getting 5y range, despite both being used near the same time 30s. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has groaned about this. Personally I'd rather just get rid of it and roll its potency into gnashing. By far my least favorite skill to use, and Double Down is on very thin ice.

Fated Circle continuation wouldn't mean much outside of dungeons, but it'd be a nice way to bring in Fatebreaker's Burnt Strike, especially now that we have Eventide as a front-back line aoe as precedent

Camouflage trait to up parry rate to 100%, I would like a trait on Nebula too but idk what

Phys raidwides seem to be a lot more popular now, so it'd be nice if Heart of Light didn't become deadweight in light of that (well, they could just design more bosses to start having both kinds of raidwides). Bestowing a partywide parry rate increase or allowing the team to parry the next phys damage taken could also let it carve out a funny and extremely minor identity niche lol... but that would also technically make it a better phys raidmit than magic, probably not the intent.

Following that, its impression as one of the most agile or mobile tanks could lend itself to having one of its mits give a brief and small move speed up (like six sided star, or how NM does in PVP). Hey, they specialized in charging Allagan Fusiliers after all.

I don't think NM should have a hard gcd count like blood weapon, but with how close you thread to fitting the 9th one in is almost impossible to tell, and the fact that most of the time you'll hit a burst strike but will always miss hypervelocity getting NM just doesn't feel right. I don't know what I want from this though.

You're not really going to be able to change the feeling of leaning on 1-2-3s by the nature of the game, but balancing the frequency of doing Solid Barrel vs Gnashing business can at least make the monotony less grating. GNB is already blessed that Gnashing is a 30s cd instead of a 1/2min cd like everyone else would.

You could also add a charging stack cycle so stray Burst Strikes add up to something stronger and fancier with each use (though again, Bloodfest change means that you'd no longer be doing a fell cleave impression on 2mins)

If you read this the whole way through somehow, thanks

[Rithy255]

My biggest issue with warrior identity is how much it heals Other's more then high sustain, I think keeping warriors strong burst sustain is fine and makes the tank intresting, I'd just rather hope that the AOE sustain gets nerfed, I understand this "only comes up in dungeons" but I think having a tank that makes your role as healer not really fun isn't healthy for the game regardless of content, I've wanted warrior to stand out on it's own more then other tanks borrowing from it, I personally don't mind if it's more simple as a good "starter tank", ideally I'd like to see it have a more higher base HP but have less/weaker mitigations, obviously this would be harder to balance and you'd certainly still need mitigations, but if it works well it could be fun as warrior would be a more reactive tank.

Dark Knight I think could have slow over time small sustain, I don't think burst sustain would even suit the Job in the first place. I like the Idea of it being more barrier focused but that needs to be balanced around the other tanks, as barrier is outright better then sustain, I think the job needs a overhaul in rotation gameplay

Paladin I feel like their identity isn't actually realised at least defensively, I think it has gameplay issues with how its rotation feels (that's nothing really new with tanks though), but Defensively PLD's req healing is selfish and un-needed, I much rather have a way to ogcd heal Self or allies (obviously outside intervention which serves more as a reduction). Also Cover one of PLD's most iconic skills is pretty much a meme skill, I think I'd also like holy sheltron to also not just do the same thing gnb does with a heal effect, blocking could use a rework, gauge feels kind of tacked on and only serves having your defensive short cd's on 2 stacks.

GNB also is pretty much the only tank I'd say who doesn't suffer from some issues, sure they could improve its gameplay or no mercy but I really don't think theirs a lot that Gunbreaker needs, I always see this as the highest (very marginal difference mind you like the current one) dps tank which is a jack of all trades master of none.

I actually think tanks can be balanced with more different defensive kits, with genuine differences with how they mitigate damage and support with raid wides and party members

[Shurrikhan]

My biggest issue with warrior identity is how much it heals Other's more then high sustain, I think keeping warriors strong burst sustain is fine and makes the tank intresting, I'd just rather hope that the AOE sustain gets nerfed,I understand this "only comes up in dungeons" but I think having a tank that makes your role as healer not really fun, I've wanted warrior to stand out on it's own more then other tanks borrowing from it, I personally don't mind if it's more simple as a good "starter tank", ideally I'd like to see it have a more higher base HP but have less/weaker mitigations, obviously this would be harder to balance and you'd certainly still need mitigations, but if it works well it could be fun as warrior would be a more reactive tank.

Same. Warrior healing only itself significantly, as it did until Shadowbringers, seems fine to me. I just don't at all understand how Nascent Flash is supposed to work. I can excuse "my output invigorates me, letting me live off of the thrill of battle," but... we're not Priests or Blood Sages or anything like that, so how the heck is my hitting an enemy with an axe healing some other guy?

I could see granting an enemy that ability to heal from damage or healing done (the latter likely at a reduced portion given the ridiculous imbalances in potency between attacks and heals in this game) for a time, giving them a bit of that Warrior juice/spirit/hype/insanity, but... redirecting the perks of your thrill of battle through the aether? ...What?


Similarly, yeah, WAR needs to regain some of its skill-expression in and around sustain. Prepping burst for one's on-demand didn't take that much skill, but it was at least something and helped with that thematic immersion. Now we just have... nothing... that is somehow also less balanceable than ever.

[Oizen]

I do think that Nascent Flash is leagues better than HoC, TBN, Oblation or Intervention. The double dip is crazy enough but playing pocket medic on a dps/supprot is really overpowered, and you definately cannot do this with GNB or DRK.
PLD kinda can do it but it requires more buttons than just fire and forget Nascent Flash.

[Shurrikhan]

I do think that Nascent Flash is leagues better than HoC, TBN, Oblation or Intervention. The double dip is crazy enough but playing pocket medic on a dps/supprot is really overpowered, and you definately cannot do this with GNB or DRK.
PLD kinda can do it but it requires more buttons than just fire and forget Nascent Flash.

Wait? Are we discussing tuning or gameplay here? How is Nascent Flash being "fire and forget", let alone uniquely (overly) powerful... a good thing?

[GoatOfWar]

I think TBN shouldn't be punishing darks with massive potency loss.

I like the "risk vs reward" aspect of TBN it adds a lot of skill expression to Dark Knight, the issue is that in reality its all risk no reward.
I much rather TBN Actually Increases the next Edge of shadow / flood of shadow by lets say 20%? if used correctly on a target, instead of this punishing ability that you only use when you know it will break.

Because War mains, (Namely a specific streamer) got mad that Drk did 2% more damage. We can effectively *never* have interesting mechanics now because any sort of moducum of depth will just be reduced to jank as we have already established; you can't have a rewarding feedback loop attached to any kind of depth as War mains will just get mad and demand any sort of reward to be removed because they will feel left out.

[Rithy255]

Same. Warrior healing only itself significantly, as it did until Shadowbringers, seems fine to me. I just don't at all understand how Nascent Flash is supposed to work. I can excuse "my output invigorates me, letting me live off of the thrill of battle," but... we're not Priests or Blood Sages or anything like that, so how the heck is my hitting an enemy with an axe healing some other guy?

I feel like SHB warrior at least had this difference in defensive use you had two defensives that did very different things on the same CD and both had really good uses even if raw intuition was usually weaker in situations where you could survive. I actually Liked that aspect and if I were to rebalance warriors short mitigation (along with others) I'd rework Bloodwhetting into something like a 30% Mitigation that's targetable (on others and self) and nascent flash into a self target heal effect. (I still think that heal effect needs to not be AOE like it used to be in shb). This would add back some skill expression in defensive use, where you need to know when you should hold on to your CD for a mitigation or use your CD for self healing... at least in theory this depends on fight design also, Shake it off I personally feel like team barriers would much suit.... dark knight? y'know the barrier tank, Warrior should get a aoe intimidation ability (similar to reprisal but stronger, but also longer)

Because War mains, (Namely a specific streamer) got mad that Drk did 2% more damage. We can effectively *never* have interesting mechanics now because any sort of moducum of depth will just be reduced to jank as we have already established; you can't have a rewarding feedback loop attached to any kind of depth as War mains will just get mad and demand any sort of reward to be removed because they will feel left out.

I agree, I don't even think the tanks doing the same damage makes any sense. I was always in favour of a small difference in tank damage 1-2% is fine, I also argued that p8s was over tuned instead of being a "tank balance issue" I always felt like warrior was fine. If warrior wants to do dark knight dps then it should give up some stuff... but instead they decided to buff shake it off because oh no paladin can't be better at supporting party members.

It does feel like Warrior is just the favourite child when it comes to tanking, Best Invul, best sustain, good raid wide, has to be above other tanks (drk in particular lol), Defensives are on par with other tanks, easiest rotation, only tank with the unique 30%

[Kazamaiya]

I could probably write half an essay about Dark Knight, but i'll try to keep it brief here.

- Rework/Remove Delirium
- Rework/Remove Living Shadow
- Give It some form of interactivity between Blackblood and MP
- Make certain abilities spend Darkside Time so we actually need to manage it somewhat.
- Give it haste somehow like in ye olden days.

Very much so simple and brief but i think i got the point across.