Quote Originally Posted by ZiraZ View Post
You should've made a thread about prog point liars becoming the norm, this doesn't have anything to do with Echo, if you want the boss to die before paradigma 2 then you are gonna also need 10 more levels and Dawntrial gear.
The prog point lying is unfortunately a symptom of the content they constructed and generally the struggle of trying to make a singular, massive multiplayer game that can capture enough peoples interest to keep the lights on. The truth is that FFXIV doesn't need any savage or ultimate content because the game is not built to be difficult. The core content is designed around a set difficulty level that is more in line with a casual / normal / narrative mode game, where the interaction and involvement a player has is with the narrative and the systems of the game are built around supporting the narrative. The main reason that savage, ex, and ultimate were added is to satisfy people that want difficulty and challenge in their game and have a large social network for which to support the achievement and make it satisfying.

But in games like this there's an entire spectrum of people who have different desires and lifestyles, and when content gets added to these games every player is exposed to that content in one way or another. People on this forum, even if they do not participate in savage, are exposed to it through the items and the players that engage in it. So eventually, if content dries up or there just isn't much else to do those people try and engage in that hard content.

Breaking down all the comments made this expansion by content creators and players, all of it involving gearing faster and/or engaging echo sooner is about balancing the accessibility so that the savage content and other hard content are accessible to the most people possible, even if it isn't at the same time. The people that are arguing against it are afraid that they are going to lose something they enjoy because of the changes or shortens the time span they have to complete the content and it's understandable. Some people are doing it through attacking credibility (This player is clearly bad at the content and just wants free gear, etc.) others just ask why the current system isn't good enough and say things like "why can't you just wait until echo in in the .6 patch instead of asking for it sooner?"

The simple truth is that savage has a lot of design issues because they are building puzzle solving fights with tight checks that can only be overcome by proficiency, and as seen in heavensward and even now, a miscalculation in how difficult a set of content is based on the current game system can cause a lot of problems. The people that dive head first into the content are going to finish the content pretty fast, and those that take a more casual approach to it through midcore scheduling are going to take longer, and the whole point of the suggestions are to normalize the time it takes so that people who are doing it more slowly are not being penalized in time to completion over those that dive head first. People right now have developed the habit of completely clocking out of the game at this point if the static they have runs into issues in the first few weeks because they know it is going to be a slog otherwise. The people that are good complete the content and leave, and those that take longer, even if they did a prior tier on a more robust schedule and beat the last one in 4-6 weeks, suffer.

And there is no good answer under FFXIV for groups that start late. If a group starts late they have to hope that those they took along are not going to have a life change and that they are on a robust enough schedule that they do not need to use PF under the current system. Under a system where the echo comes on sooner and they make gearing easier, it is true they may not get the same authentic experience, since they may be looking for something where they have more gear than the minimum iLvL requirement, but aren't so powerful that they render key mechanics moot, like doing old content unsync. But in the end, I agree with the content creators that gearing is too slow, echo comes on too late, and there is a lot of disengagement in late tier because of it with or without developers accidently making content more difficult then intended.