SE: Please enable echo way earlier on savage tier...

[TaleraRistain]

Why do we need Echo now? Yes, it's been out for a while but it's still the current tier. My casual static is still working through it and I'd certainly prefer we get the chance to finish it at the proper difficulty before they slap the Echo on. As another poster mentioned, it shouldn't just be those who completed it shortly after it released who get the fun of challenging the content at full effect.

[Colt47]

Why do we need Echo now? Yes, it's been out for a while but it's still the current tier. My casual static is still working through it and I'd certainly prefer we get the chance to finish it at the proper difficulty before they slap the Echo on. As another poster mentioned, it shouldn't just be those who completed it shortly after it released who get the fun of challenging the content at full effect.

Enabling echo doesn't stop anyone from having it disabled, and if it is enabled and your group decides to use it then that would simply mean that the value of running it wasn't really overcoming the complete challenge, but just having the BiS gear. Going back to the days in world of warcraft groups of people with completely different goals were forced into the same pool because they didn't have an option otherwise and that is the same scenario that is playing out with savage. Waiting until the next expansion or for some very late expansion echo is pointless because at that point the content is completely dead, so the only real option is to give some kind of off ramp sooner. In the end if someone completes the content with echo on or not they still have completed the content and still had to learn the mechanics to do so, you just get to the parts that require learning faster and can deal with mistakes more easily.

[TaleraRistain]

Enabling echo doesn't stop anyone from having it disabled, and if it is enabled and your group decides to use it then that would simply mean that the value of running it wasn't really overcoming the complete challenge, but just having the BiS gear. Going back to the days in world of warcraft groups of people with completely different goals were forced into the same pool because they didn't have an option otherwise and that is the same scenario that is playing out with savage. Waiting until the next expansion or for some very late expansion echo is pointless because at that point the content is completely dead, so the only real option is to give some kind of off ramp sooner. In the end if someone completes the content with echo on or not they still have completed the content and still had to learn the mechanics to do so, you just get to the parts that require learning faster and can deal with mistakes more easily.

Having it as an option changes things, though. Someone can use the MINE options on older Savage now but it's the not the same as clearing it when it was completely on content. And it wouldn't be the same choosing to turn Echo off once it's available as it is when we're all in the same boat and there isn't an Echo option. It can be frustrating as heck to not progress, but it feels awesome when you do get past that part that was tripping you up.

[Scruit_Bigtime]

As for why "this is not a skill issue", for one: I'm saying that because saying it is "a skill issue" implies that the one writing that knows what is going on in the other persons life. It's also implying that people who have not cleared the content yet are somehow inferior in their capabilities of learning over those who did, without considering how much time they have to study, what hours they are engaging in the content in, and how often they can afford to meet up. Someone who is doing this during the late hours of the day and only has an hour at best to study before going to a savage is going to take longer than someone going in from the morning and taking multiple days off from work to complete it. IMO if players are still dying to p12s on month 7 when on almost all other tiers prior to this, people generally were able to clear month 6 or sooner, there's kind of a problem.

alot of people have life commitments, jobs, study, parenting. and they have managed to clear fine. you can stick your head in the sand all you like and claim its not a skill issue, or you can accept the fact you may need to improve yourself, if you want to clear while its current. or come back next expansion and do it.


the content was clearable week one with 650 gear, by this pont if your serious and haven't needed to job swap you should be around 660

[ForteNightshade]

People who are struggling on Anabesios p12s p1 and p2 are not lacking in skill right now

This is quite literally the definition of lacking skill, sweetheart. You (general) aren't yet capable of beating P12S without several deaths and/or damage downs, thus needing the game to give you a free 10-20% boost to overcome that deficiency. Now let me be clear. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, of course. Especially for those inexperienced with the higher difficulty of Savage. But it is a skill issue. Like others have already brought up, you have access to nearly full i660 nowadays, which is significantly higher than people clearing it before did. Therefore, the fights have already been "nerfed".

Even without echo, you aren't going to skip the actual hard mechanics in P12S. All of them are situated in such a way, you'll never kill beforehand. And most of them are body checks. You're not completing Classical Elements until everyone understands how the shapes and 180 degree rotation works nor are you getting by "Limit Cut" with deaths prior to the last pair. Echo may allow for a few extra deaths but it's not going to change much when the vast majority of people still struggling with Savage are making mechanical mistakes not dying to enrage.

It should also be noted, the "running joke" has nothing to do with echo. People asking for Savage to be unlocked earlier simply want the gear restriction removed so they can subsequently gear and play more jobs. In fact, several of those same people would prefer echo didn't happen until 7.0 to preserve the fight's difficulty curve.

[VerdeLuck]

Why do we need Echo now? Yes, it's been out for a while but it's still the current tier. My casual static is still working through it and I'd certainly prefer we get the chance to finish it at the proper difficulty before they slap the Echo on. As another poster mentioned, it shouldn't just be those who completed it shortly after it released who get the fun of challenging the content at full effect.

You can always just turn the echo off if you don't want that. If you want to make content more challenging or clear things synced or without echo, the game has options to make that easily done without much work past checking a box.

[CidHeiral]

People who are struggling on Anabesios p12s p1 and p2 are not lacking in skill right now

[Bonoki]

I'll probably get flak for this but oh well. I'm sort of bittersweet on this one. As someone who does clear the content on patch myself, I sometimes have wanted echo earlier in the fights to make farming for glamour go quicker. I am also aware though that such a suggestion would cause the turnout rate for on content clears to drop significantly. For example, I barely have done any Extreme fights since Stormblood because I have found no reason to. I just wait until we can Unsync and then I farm for my mounts. The only time I do them on patch is when they offer an item level increase that I actually need.

[Enjuden]

Enabling echo doesn't stop anyone from having it disabled, and if it is enabled and your group decides to use it then that would simply mean that the value of running it wasn't really overcoming the complete challenge, but just having the BiS gear. Going back to the days in world of warcraft groups of people with completely different goals were forced into the same pool because they didn't have an option otherwise and that is the same scenario that is playing out with savage. Waiting until the next expansion or for some very late expansion echo is pointless because at that point the content is completely dead, so the only real option is to give some kind of off ramp sooner. In the end if someone completes the content with echo on or not they still have completed the content and still had to learn the mechanics to do so, you just get to the parts that require learning faster and can deal with mistakes more easily.

??????????????

Name a single group that isn't streaming that would realistically turn off echo. You can't, because it doesn't happen. There's no point in going over the other points because it is 'I'm/my group not good enough'. That happens. People struggle on things whether that's you or someone else, and that's how it's going to be for every raid tier. There will always be someone left behind.

If you want some real advice, then you need to clear the content within 2 months of it launching if you want to run solo. 2 months people begin to dip that have got their loot and can do it consistently, and if you're still not clearing by 3 months, you are not clearing the tier within its life cycle. If you have a static it's a different matter, but from what I can tell you're going solo since no static is likely recruiting at this time for almost 7 month old content. Most statics I know of are done, or have a realistic standard that they will take a long time to clear due to irl obligations/knowing their skill level.

[MsMisato]

NO. Just git gud. No seriously. Not everything needs to be handed on a silver platter when the content is still current. once the new expansion savages come out, then you can have your echo.