SE: Please enable echo way earlier on savage tier...

[Colt47]

You will literally get "Epic Echo" in the next expansion, regardless. Item level will increase. It will be alright.

...yes, they are. If someone needs The Echo because it's too hard, that is literally because of a lack of skill, unless they have some sort of disability.

They have not said there was a screw up in difficulty, though. They test the content before they release it and Yoshi-P does personal checks of it and if he doesn't like it, he asks them to change it or redo it.

Echo should not be there until the next tier at the earliest and fortunately, that is how it seems to be.

Waiting until next expansion is pointless when people are trying to do the content now. It's not about who is better or not at this point, people are smacking themselves against a wall way too long on content that has been around for several months. People who wanted this stuff done for the merit of saying they did the hard content already cleared it on month 4 back in Mid September. I was a big supporter of the idea that we can wait for content to cycle out and then do it when it is no longer current, but that is not the same thing as having your current content scale so that people complete the content in a reasonable time. 10% echo wont help against body checks but it will make it so people can more consistently get to where they need to in order to progress.

As for why "this is not a skill issue", for one: I'm saying that because saying it is "a skill issue" implies that the one writing that knows what is going on in the other persons life. It's also implying that people who have not cleared the content yet are somehow inferior in their capabilities of learning over those who did, without considering how much time they have to study, what hours they are engaging in the content in, and how often they can afford to meet up. Someone who is doing this during the late hours of the day and only has an hour at best to study before going to a savage is going to take longer than someone going in from the morning and taking multiple days off from work to complete it. IMO if players are still dying to p12s on month 7 when on almost all other tiers prior to this, people generally were able to clear month 6 or sooner, there's kind of a problem.

Likewise, I've ran into a disagreement on what skill means in terms of these conversations a lot. If the definition of skill is someone doing the fight well, most of the people are doing the parts of the fight they have learned fine, the reason they are getting blocked is the fact that a single person in the group so much as messing up can chain kill the party. With 8 people that means anyone who makes a mistake even if they are just tired is going to result in the entire group being held back. If a person can execute all mechanics correctly 7/8 times in p12s p1, how is that not skilled? if you got 8 people in a group and each of them has that success to failure rate, the entire group could easily not clear p12s p1 on a night to get to phase 2. That and confusion over where someone should be standing because people were positioned differently on the prior night also factors into this. Is it a skill issue if someone who has been group 1 melee has to get shifted to group 2 for melee on a fight and the group wipes because of it? Probably not, that is more of an organization issue.

To put it simply: A skill is something that is applied to multiple areas. Learning a savage fight is reading a picture book and remembering every single picture in it, to the point you can flip instantly to the right page when needed. Nothing carries over to anything else outside of that one thing since each savage fight is its own book. Hence, someone can learn a savage fight, but they aren't suddenly becoming "more skilled" at savage in general. Even DPS in these fights are linked to the learning of the fight and not to someone's skill at playing the game in a broad sense.