Red mage 7.0 Wishlist

[Milkbeard]

This is part of the reason why I think that the 2 minute meta is bad for the game overall. It requires everything to be designed within this small time frame and every job that existed before it will have to be gutted to end up fitting into that bubble.

Gutted you say? What would you personally bring back for red mage, from the time before this 2 minute meta? I know the streamers and twitter are very charged about this topic right now, aren't they?

[Rychu]

Gutted you say? What would you personally bring back for red mage, from the time before this 2 minute meta? I know the streamers and twitter are very charged about this topic right now, aren't they?

Haha guess that was pretty confusing since this is a Red Mage thread, sorry I should have clarified in the original post I made.

Red Mage actually transitioned pretty easily between Shadowbringers to Endwalker since it's burst lined up anyways. I was referring to every other job in the game that had to be changed to fit into the 2 minute meta. Paladin is an easy example of a job that was really good at sustained damage but because it didn't fit into the 2 minute meta, had to be mini-reworked to remove the sustained damage aspect that it was known for.

[Shurrikhan]

Paladin is an easy example of a job that was really good at sustained damage but because it didn't fit into the 2 minute meta, had to be mini-reworked to remove the sustained damage aspect that it was known for.

Tangent, but... "Sustained damage" isn't a perk. There's no value in being "good at" sustained damage. The things nearest that that may have actual benefit are merely either advantages in fight-length DPS, at least in certain types of comps (e.g., those with minimal buff value), or lesser variation in that overall damage over variation in context (such as to fight length or composition).

Jobs can have a lead in typically-produced nDPS (or "damage irrespective of buffs") or contextually in aDPS ("damage in practice," wherein the degree of buffs available and exploitation of them through burst can make large differences), but ultimately only burst offers further value than just how much damage you fit into the time between the fight's start and end; sustain does not.

That's not to say that all jobs should be equally bursty or the like, but for a job to be less bursty, it would generally need something else/more in compensation; otherwise, the same raw damage just means less actual / in-practice damage.

And that, in turn becomes a bit of a can of worms for balancing, as you end up with less coordination-dependent jobs just being outright superior into some turning point and, like Dancers' (who want to be matched with a "selfish" DPS for greatest total party value between themselves and their partner) compositional obligations, you end up splitting comps into Minimal Coordination (low burst and low buffs, and therefore less party damage coming from exploitation of buffs) vs. Maximal Coordination (the opposite), where Minimal Coordination would punish deaths and desync significantly less.

[Rychu]

Tangent, but... "Sustained damage" isn't a perk. There's no value in being "good at" sustained damage. The things nearest that that may have actual benefit are merely either advantages in fight-length DPS, at least in certain types of comps (e.g., those with minimal buff value), or lesser variation in that overall damage over variation in context (such as to fight length or composition).

Oh yeah I didn't mean it like a perk or a benefit, more as just a different option. Like I think it's a little unfair to people who aren't a fan of bursting classes that there is quite literally no options for them.

And this is coming from someone that is perfectly happy with Red Mage's rotation as is which fits perfectly in the 2 minute meta