Thread: Red mage 7.0 Wishlist

Originally Posted by SieyaM

Honestly, and this is going to be a very unpopular opinion that is rife with balance issues, I wish they would allow RDM to switch between a white and black magic stance giving benefits of each. Black magic stance could focus very heavily on damage replacing any utility and healing with DPS tools while White magic stance could give us even more utility in addition to vercure and raise being available. I feel like it would allow for some kind of player expression with the job but I can already see how whichever stance gave the higher DPS output would be the only one people allowed RDM to play as in groups.

I have to strongly disagree with this for two reasons:


1. Having played during stance dance days, this works horribly in practice and would in fact cause more trouble than it would resolve for RDM.
2. Having played FFXI, this would dangerously put rdm close to a healer-alternative role, and trust me you really don't want to land Rdm in this spot. It will entirely destroy the identity of rdm and cause certain meta that forces rdm into a healer role. Granted the game isn't built well to force this kind of meta, but in certain instances where a healer is too much to ask for and a rdm fits the bill enough while being able to stance dance between a healer/dps role...yeah, you really don't want this. Trust me.

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

But, what else do you want to add to this wishlist though? How do you think the black and white motif can be better added to red mage that makes more sense? Do you have strong opinions about the stuff on the wishlist as is?

I added my 2 cents worth in a prior post. I just felt it was important to voice why asking for a stance between White mana/support and black mana/DPS was detrimental. Having experienced it in various ways, I'd hate to see it happen in FFXIV for Rdm. Especially knowing how people stretch pre-made pt builds to skip certain things already I could see it happening at some point if this did somehow come to be for Rdm.

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

snip.

Don’t you see how pointless this line of thinking is?

I mean, it’s a fact that there isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that actually requires you to have more than one damage button either. Technically they can put our entire dps potency into a single ability and that’s all we have. There isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that even requires healers - everything has been cleared without them.

Are all damage buttons except one ‘a literal waste of button space’? All four healer jobs? Technically they could remove them all entirely and the game would still be theoretically clearable. But it wouldn’t be much fun now, would it?

I mean I don’t even feel strongly about whether Red Mage has self-mitigation or not, I just think that approaching any job design with ‘optimisation’ in mind is ultimately going to end badly (See: all jobs currently lol)

Just because something is technically true in certain circumstances doesn’t make it sacrosanct. Trying to design the game around absolute optimisations because ‘the best way = the only way’ is exactly what’s made the gameplay suffer. Because sooner or later ‘fun’ will become an obstacle to optimisation, and what then? We end up with a whole bunch of toned-down, simplistic jobs that are just copy/pastes of each other with different aesthetics.

Originally Posted by Connor

Don’t you see how pointless this line of thinking is?

I mean, it’s a fact that there isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that actually requires you to have more than one damage button either. Technically they can put our entire dps potency into a single ability and that’s all we have. There isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that even requires healers - everything has been cleared without them.

Are all damage buttons except one ‘a literal waste of button space’? All four healer jobs? Technically they could remove them all entirely and the game would still be theoretically clearable. But it wouldn’t be much fun now, would it?

I mean I don’t even feel strongly about whether Red Mage has self-mitigation or not, I just think that approaching any job design with ‘optimisation’ in mind is ultimately going to end badly (See: all jobs currently lol)

Just because something is technically true in certain circumstances doesn’t make it sacrosanct. Trying to design the game around absolute optimisations because ‘the best way = the only way’ is exactly what’s made the gameplay suffer. Because sooner or later ‘fun’ will become an obstacle to optimisation, and what then? We end up with a whole bunch of toned-down, simplistic jobs that are just copy/pastes of each other with different aesthetics.

You are implying that I am saying that this is a way of thinking, or something applicable to all aspects of the game. It isn't my logic that is pointless here, it is personal mitigation. It is fun to press it, but the game isn't balanced for you doing it- All Red mages should already know this. If you alone die to a mechanic hitting a group of people, so many buttons must have not been pressed by healers, tanks, and even dps. Group mitigation is all that is viable in this game, personal mitigation does not off-set that.

Personal mitigation is redundant. I did not say, or allude to dps moves, healers and tanks as also being so. Personal mitigation will not keep you alive through a mechanic that requires 40% mitigation from the group, when its only receiving 20% mitigation from the group. Basically, you think it may be keeping you alive, but chances are, as a dps personal mitigation never is what keeps you alive.

Clearly a lot of energy is being put here shaking our fists asking "why don't we have personal mit". When more energy should be put into "why do we honestly think we should have it?"

Its an idea, for sure. I just don't see where the bandwagons going with that one.

If every class in the game has a personal mitigation, we as players, would have to be ready to accept that they will put mechanics in the game requiring all players to press them at once.

Because that would be the outcome. If you enjoy watching raiding, do you think it would be fun watching 8 players press personal mit for 1 mechanic to meet the threshold and then 1 dies because they forgot and then be forced to pull again. Not me! It would suck even more being that player!