Red mage 7.0 Wishlist

[Charles_Mephist]

"Welcome 20.0. A new thing we are adding to red mage is... a new finisher! So now you have a 17 hit finisher combo!"

Should I be concerned that I can see this actually happening >.>

[SieyaM]

Honestly, and this is going to be a very unpopular opinion that is rife with balance issues, I wish they would allow RDM to switch between a white and black magic stance giving benefits of each. Black magic stance could focus very heavily on damage replacing any utility and healing with DPS tools while White magic stance could give us even more utility in addition to vercure and raise being available. I feel like it would allow for some kind of player expression with the job but I can already see how whichever stance gave the higher DPS output would be the only one people allowed RDM to play as in groups.

[Silverquick]

Fix caster HP, and RDM HP especially seeing as they have no personally mitigation, there is basically no argument's for their continued lower HP pools.
Being the only one to die to unavoidable raid wide damage is getting really old.
The fact that I want the level 100 capstone ability to be a personal shield is depressing.

I agree,

Now that I've done Variant Dungeons, it is very plain to see. I've already seen it in normal dungeons, raids, and alliance raids. My SMN can stand in there way better than my RDM. It's blatantly noticeable and it should not be that way.

That's one of the areas RDM should stand out from the other Mage DPS jobs... and it quite frankly just doesn't. This part really needs a boost. I get that the Devs are never gonna give it damage and I'm ok with that. but it should stick out in other ways since it was supposed to be a combination of WAR/BLM/WHM but weaker in all of those.... It is not meeting that criteria other than the lower damage.

It meets it well on the BLM and WHM... but is failing to live up to the WAR side in terms of staying power in melee... that needs to be corrected.

[Milkbeard]

Now I want to put a hot fact out here that most of you, for sure aren't seeing or realizing. Self-mitigation is redundant outside of all content other than expert roulette.
Self mitigation is redundant, it doesn't negate death in any situation in which you have the slightest coordination with a healer and or tank. Every mechanic and attack *in the game* has a mitigation threshold. You meet the threshold using group mitigation. If you do not meet it, someone in the party dies. Self-mitigation is redundant because mitigation thresholds are the bare minimun expectation for surviving an AOE and are balanced around players not self-mitigating.

This is a fact ladies and gentlemen of this forum. You may not agree with it, but it is how people who clear hardcore content know exactly what moves to pop. You plan the mit, and then execute the completion of the mechanic.

Sumn personal mit, BLM personal mit, all DPS personal mit. Is redundant, a literal waste of button space.

I challenge you to come up with a single mechanic in the entire game that requires it, (spoiler) there are none. Because they are all balanced to be handled without it.

Regardless, I will add it to the post as something red mages think would be fun to use. Is it needed? It is not, never has been, never will be.

[Connor]

snip.

Don’t you see how pointless this line of thinking is?

I mean, it’s a fact that there isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that actually requires you to have more than one damage button either. Technically they can put our entire dps potency into a single ability and that’s all we have. There isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that even requires healers - everything has been cleared without them.

Are all damage buttons except one ‘a literal waste of button space’? All four healer jobs? Technically they could remove them all entirely and the game would still be theoretically clearable. But it wouldn’t be much fun now, would it?

I mean I don’t even feel strongly about whether Red Mage has self-mitigation or not, I just think that approaching any job design with ‘optimisation’ in mind is ultimately going to end badly (See: all jobs currently lol)

Just because something is technically true in certain circumstances doesn’t make it sacrosanct. Trying to design the game around absolute optimisations because ‘the best way = the only way’ is exactly what’s made the gameplay suffer. Because sooner or later ‘fun’ will become an obstacle to optimisation, and what then? We end up with a whole bunch of toned-down, simplistic jobs that are just copy/pastes of each other with different aesthetics.

[Milkbeard]

The Red Mage is currently playing really comfortably and not as sweaty as all the melee classes. What the Red Mage really doesn't need is a new finisher or new OCD abilities. Much more Quality of Life additions like a melee attack that doesn't consume 5/5 mana but instead stacks, and as suggested by someone else, deals more damage when a certain amount of Dark and Light mana is reached. Let it still be 5/5, but they shouldn't be consumed.

I would also like it if the damage from our dashes and jumps were removed, so that they no longer necessarily enter our rotation, and we can really use them as intended - as a combination for our melee finisher.

Otherwise, provide opportunities for us to build White and Dark Mana more quickly so that after all the openers and activation of any cooldowns, we don't completely plummet in damage output.

It seems a lot are sharing a similar sentiment. More finishers being added to the combo is largely being seen as less of a necessity. I like how you mentioned the movement skills should not deal damage. I agree. They add more ogcd clutter for miniscule damage gains. In otherwords, movement skills don't feel good as damage skills, yet for some reason they are. They would be much better as utility and clearing their potencies could lessen the Ogcd clutter in the opener.

[Milkbeard]

Don’t you see how pointless this line of thinking is?

I mean, it’s a fact that there isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that actually requires you to have more than one damage button either. Technically they can put our entire dps potency into a single ability and that’s all we have. There isn’t a single mechanic in the entire game that even requires healers - everything has been cleared without them.

Are all damage buttons except one ‘a literal waste of button space’? All four healer jobs? Technically they could remove them all entirely and the game would still be theoretically clearable. But it wouldn’t be much fun now, would it?

I mean I don’t even feel strongly about whether Red Mage has self-mitigation or not, I just think that approaching any job design with ‘optimisation’ in mind is ultimately going to end badly (See: all jobs currently lol)

Just because something is technically true in certain circumstances doesn’t make it sacrosanct. Trying to design the game around absolute optimisations because ‘the best way = the only way’ is exactly what’s made the gameplay suffer. Because sooner or later ‘fun’ will become an obstacle to optimisation, and what then? We end up with a whole bunch of toned-down, simplistic jobs that are just copy/pastes of each other with different aesthetics.

You are implying that I am saying that this is a way of thinking, or something applicable to all aspects of the game. It isn't my logic that is pointless here, it is personal mitigation. It is fun to press it, but the game isn't balanced for you doing it- All Red mages should already know this. If you alone die to a mechanic hitting a group of people, so many buttons must have not been pressed by healers, tanks, and even dps. Group mitigation is all that is viable in this game, personal mitigation does not off-set that.

Personal mitigation is redundant. I did not say, or allude to dps moves, healers and tanks as also being so. Personal mitigation will not keep you alive through a mechanic that requires 40% mitigation from the group, when its only receiving 20% mitigation from the group. Basically, you think it may be keeping you alive, but chances are, as a dps personal mitigation never is what keeps you alive.

Clearly a lot of energy is being put here shaking our fists asking "why don't we have personal mit". When more energy should be put into "why do we honestly think we should have it?"

Its an idea, for sure. I just don't see where the bandwagons going with that one.

[Milkbeard]

If every class in the game has a personal mitigation, we as players, would have to be ready to accept that they will put mechanics in the game requiring all players to press them at once.

Because that would be the outcome. If you enjoy watching raiding, do you think it would be fun watching 8 players press personal mit for 1 mechanic to meet the threshold and then 1 dies because they forgot and then be forced to pull again. Not me! It would suck even more being that player!

[kayll]

Self-mitigation is redundant outside of all content other than expert roulette.
Self mitigation is redundant, it doesn't negate death in any situation in which you have the slightest coordination with a healer and or tank.

Can you tell me why if you look at overall parses on fflogs, RDM has the highest amount of deaths on every fight for savages?
Even with them enabling more deaths to other classes because they can raise them?
Do you think its possible because RDM inherently has the least effective HP in the game for both magical and physical attacks due to nature of being a caster on top of not having any sort of personal mitigation?

[Milkbeard]

I don't think we can form any causal links using that data. If two classes who don't have personal mit moves are performing different in death percentages for a given encounter or phase i'd be inclined to lean more towards what you originally said about durability, hp values and resistances. Sorry that I didn't address that in your original post, that is something I too think should be changed. I don't personally think casters should have radically differing HP or resistance values than roles other than tank.

Using the statistics you mentioned, we could be asking ourselves a lot of questions about why classes die more than others. Sample sizes, clears vs wipes, party distribution, its tough -I really would like to see someone map out one mechanic from one fight and try and find something other than anecdotes or personal opinion beyond just setting the tabs to their very limited options on the site. It forms a graph and gives a percentage but doesn't really give an answer, at least as far as i've seen.