Dark Knight needs serious help

[Absurdity]

I genuinely wish Warrior didn't exist, because none of the other tank mains have a similar obnoxious online presence and chokehold on job design.

Pretty ironic coming from someone who has complained about Warrior over and over and over again since 6.4

[MikoRemi]

Pretty ironic coming from someone who has complained about Warrior over and over and over again since 6.4

But haven't you heard? Warrior's are the cause for all the problems of tanking! If people say it enough, it surely will be true! /kek

Even though most WAR mains either keep to themselves or want other tanks to get better if were being honest here. I'd certainly want to see a more positive direction rather than tearing down good jobs.

[Rithy255]

But haven't you heard? Warrior's are the cause for all the problems of tanking! If people say it enough, it surely will be true! /kek

Even though most WAR mains either keep to themselves or want other tanks to get better if were being honest here. I'd certainly want to see a more positive direction rather than tearing down good jobs.

I'm thinking tanks are likely a bit too good right now more then anything, warrior seems to be easy to point to because of it's absurd healing (which i think is perfectly fine for trial content and self). I do get where people are coming from with its aoe healing and shake regen (maybe I'd be more happy if they gave the magic knight tank more team healing then self healing lol). I don't think warrior is the issue in reality but in general the tanks are just way too defensive as of current which ironically makes them feel more like boring dps because they barely have to worry about defensive management.

I think we're at a point where we need to address tank design in general though has reached to a level where they're all way too defensive and need to be toned down... Dark Knight honestly is really good still just feels clunky and miserable to play for me.

I personally dislike the idea of buffing everything over and over that's how we got to this power creep state with tanks, I don't think nerfing tanks would be a bad idea if it was done together as a rebalance, or failing to do so they can increase the damage of duties? but I doubt they'd do that in any meaningful way.

[MikoRemi]

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To be fair, you’re one of the more sane individuals on the forums even if I disagree personally. Having come from games where nerfs strike upon popular jobs constantly(can be up to or over a year in some cases, thanks Elsword), I’d rather not hurt a good tank doing good things. In Elsword’s case, it basically meant rerolling a character or paying to enhance your gear to negate the nerfs to your damage(doesn’t change how your skills feel though if they got hurt). For a more funny example, Dark Souls 2 put in so many nerfs to weapons/armor/rings/spells that they had to nerf the enemies just to rebalance them once again.

The devs are going to have to address the overall design because it won’t be fixed by screwing over Warrior, Dark Knight and even Gunbreaker as I said in the past can still get plenty of improvements. Warrior is really not that strong enough to be considered powercreep, the moment Warrior’s Fell Cleave can chunk off 10% of a bosses hp in one shot, that’s when we got a big problem.

The moment we have nerfs being used on all the good classes, it just becomes unfun. Again though, that’s just a personal disagreement having seen the other side of things.

[Rithy255]

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Power creep in terms of defensive value more then anything (this can be also attributed to autos as well), I actually like tanks doing a lot of damage and not hitting like a tiny mouse lol. (60-75% of a actual DPS is Ideal), But right now all tanks feel really strong defensively that coupled with lacking autos means you're no longer really managing your defensives... you either hold all of them for the kitchen sink or you can just not really think about using them, dungeons as well are just super easy to wall to wall without even being healed.

I think with warrior it hurts the game more then helps the game to actually have that sort of sustain in AOE, because what is it going to teach new healers? to afk or damage they dont have a job this somwhat applies to other tanks too.. but that can be fixed by more damage warrior just in that department would be very high to cap out. I know dungeon content may not be important to you or hard core raiders but it's content that 90% of the player base does on a regular basis.

I'd say all tanks have been getting power creed defensively (everyone getting their own "TBN"), again warrior is easy to point to because of the AOE healing and the strongest raid wide (paladin too but passage personally needs to just be changed to be less situational and annoying). Ironically having such strong defensives and low damage ongoing makes tanks feel less like tanks to me because all you need to focus on is a basic dps rotation, not to mention bosses move on themselves now lol? I get this isn't a "overhaul tank" issue but it feels like every change that has been made is to make tank into boring dps.

I feel like 7.0 is the time to make nerfs because mid expansion nerfs generally don't go over well, But I think they need to Overhaul all tanks more then just blind nerfs to sustain or defensive value, I just doubt that tanks or healers will get any positive changes sadly if that's the case. At the end of the day I feel like job design for tanks/healers will keep declining or go more towards the boring defensive DPS / boring Healing DPS route they have been for a long while now. Not to say dpsing isn't fun but I don't play tank for boring dps, I actually want to manage my defensives and raid wides... meh.

[MikoRemi]

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It sort of depends on the tank. I mean for WAR admittedly, 50% of the time I'm using up Vengeance because of that silly physical damage reflect, so most of the time it's Rampart and/or simply Bloodwhetting at the right time. Thrill is for special occasions and Reprisal for some AoE's, standard stuff. Going wall to wall in dungeons is part of the fun but the only sad part is some tanks have it easier than others.

I mean a good tank will end up making that happen regardless(other than DRK somewhat). A PLD eats pain pretty close to WAR, a GNB can last for a decent while but also has Superbolide for fun, DRK...I mean with proper mitigations even dungeon pulls can eat into the defensives a little slower, but Dark Mind needs help to be that little extra kick. Also this only really applies to low level content since especially with the recent extreme, that doom and stack buster can be a little nutty if the healers just AFK. Thing is, you can't adjust for one thing and not affect the other inadvertently, and I tend to do more dungeons lately compared to extremes, and I haven't raided seriously since P1-3S(a month and a half of Darkened Fire/Add parties will do things to you).

The bosses could afford to be moved around a bit more since it is pretty fun, but being beefier than the Stormblood era is quite a godsend. Being a dps with more HP back then wasn't really enough, especially with how jobs were back in the day anyway. If anything it feels more tanky because well, they don't get eaten up like wet tissue paper.

I'd have my doubts about nerfs to anything at this point. Nothing really stands out that much like Summoner pulling WAY ahead of BLM/SAM long ago, not even WAR since it's more or less an easier tank but less maximizing on the overall damage which is fine. They're already reworking DRG/AST as well, and if MCH has taught me anything, if it isn't a bit issue then it'll go into the next expansion with nothing but new toys at most. It's just a difference in values though I suppose. I manage things fine in higher end content which is where that sort of things matter. Dungeons are meant to not be too much of a hassle or we get more "The Burn" and "Bardam's Mettle", where the average folk unfortunately had issues dealing with them so things had to be adjusted. I'd like for healers to get worked over but that's for healer threads. DRK could just do with some saves of it's own since well...this is the thread for that. Better to wish for that than nerfs that aren't needed, only a few months left and all.