New Job: Viper

[Darkpaw]

What is with the Zidane class? No class in this game has 100% been based off an existing character.

The closest we get is Gunbreaker which sure has some references to Squall and Seifer.

Dark is not the “Cloud Job”
Bard is not the “Edgar Job”
Drg is not the “Kain job”
Pld is not the “Cecil Job”

There are references to these characters sure. But the whole class wasnt built to make you feel like a certain character ffs.

Viper is not the “Zidane job” it uses a twinblade sure. That’s it. That’s the entire similarity. Nothing else in the 1 minute video teaser we got points at all to Zidane. Nothing.

Y’all stretching yourselves in knots like some kinda twisted Yogi when the fact is we have closer to no information than anything substantive.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Y’all stretching yourselves in knots like some kinda twisted Yogi when the fact is we have closer to no information than anything substantive.

Is his main weapon though.
And even if in IX you have to choose between "shortswords" and twinblade, in further installements like Dissidia you see him combining the daggers into the twinblandes. Zidane is also a champion game hunter. Just saying.

Now, ofc for XIV the class gets a more deep and world-lore description. And if anything, Viper looks just what a Rogue that didn't went east but west would look like. I bet more than one Rogue that ever sailed towards Tural and ended up seeing the fighting styles of the Vipers said screw it and just moved from daggers to straight swords/twinblade. The Scouting fits this class much better than Ninja itself... Which at this point is probably more of a melee casting job. But Viper looks totally what a Rogue would look if the doman refugees never had made it to Eorzea.

The thing is why is this job starting in Ul'dah of all places.

For some reason the job and Tural as a whole seem to be more closely related to Sharlayan than to Limsa Lominsa... Kinda forgetting that it was Lominsans those who made contact with the New World first... In fact we are going there in a Sharlayan ship, with a Sharlayan guide. When for a decade all/most we knew of this place came from Lominsans.

[SeverianLyonesse]

What is with the Zidane class? No class in this game has 100% been based off an existing character.

The closest we get is Gunbreaker which sure has some references to Squall and Seifer.

Dark is not the “Cloud Job”
Bard is not the “Edgar Job”
Drg is not the “Kain job”
Pld is not the “Cecil Job”

There are references to these characters sure. But the whole class wasnt built to make you feel like a certain character ffs.

Viper is not the “Zidane job” it uses a twinblade sure. That’s it. That’s the entire similarity. Nothing else in the 1 minute video teaser we got points at all to Zidane. Nothing.

Y’all stretching yourselves in knots like some kinda twisted Yogi when the fact is we have closer to no information than anything substantive.

It quite obviously has a trance mode, so claiming that it is just the weapon is misrepresenting how much influence Zidane has on the job design.

Show me anywhere in the game that a Hunter job has a specifically snake-like motif, I would accept the genericization of the "Zidane" job. Hell, even show me an Ivalice Judge or any other blade-staff user with a snake/poison motif and I would accept this as an amalgamation of references. The closest we get is Fang's Saboteur job, and that is such a stretch I would never consider it to have seriously affected Viper's design.

Otherwise, Zidane is the only point of reference we have, and unlike Squall having some lion motifs associated with him, nothing about Zidane's character aligns with "snakes". Certainly no more than the Zidane job should have been a "Hunter"/"Treasure Hunter".

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Otherwise, Zidane is the only point of reference we have, and unlike Squall having some lion motifs associated with him, nothing about Zidane's character aligns with "snakes". Certainly no more than the Zidane job should have been a "Hunter"/"Treasure Hunter".

It's a XIV original Job.

It isn't the "Job of Zidane" - It just tributes him the dual dagger - twinblade style. That's all.
The slithering motif of the Job is the XIV ORIGINAL part.

[SeverianLyonesse]

It's a XIV original Job.

It isn't the "Job of Zidane" - It just tributes him the dual dagger - twinblade style. That's all.
The slithering motif of the Job is the XIV ORIGINAL part.

Just because something is "original" does not mean it is particularly inspired, cohesive, synergistic, or good.

Just go check out all of the original Sonic characters people have created.

And while we could have anticipated that at some point FFXIV would run out of job archetypes to pull form older games, (a) this is clearly not the case here where this job absolutely could have pulled a lot of direct inspiration from Zidane, and (b) as far as being their first foray into an "original" job, this is a pretty poor first step.

I still hold that it is a poorly considered motif; there were better directions to take the job that would have communicated an actual Rogue/Thief/Treasure Hunter concept, as well as better reflected Zidane's trance mode, AND better communicated the different weapon stances.

It is a weak concept. The snake has swallowed the whole job and very little of interest remains.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Just because something is "original" does not mean it is particularly inspired, cohesive, synergistic, or good.

But it is inspired, cohesive, synergistic and really good.
Is the first Job im actually interested about from an expansion.

Dual/Twinblades as main? Im done.

That has an animal element to it's design is what is bothering you because is "not a classic Ranger". Nor is just the whatever of those Jobs and character, and don't get me wrong, Zidane is my absolute favorite main protagonist in the series and thats a huge part on my enthusiasm about the Job - Maybe im just, you know, watching the full half of the glass.

And we don't know much if anything of the Lore about the Job.

You just mad you ain't getting thief.
Now if the caster is a Necromancer i will be the most happy being alive in existence for about a week. But if it isn't, im sure im not coming here to just try to pass opinion as a fact on why whatever caster class is, is bad for extremely irrelevant reasons.

[SeverianLyonesse]

But it is inspired, cohesive, synergistic and really good.
Is the first Job im actually interested about from an expansion.

Dual/Twinblades as main? Im done.

That has an animal element to it\\'s design is what is bothering you because is "not a classic Ranger". Nor is just the whatever of those Jobs and character, and don\\'t get me wrong, Zidane is my absolute favorite main protagonist in the series and thats a huge part on my enthusiasm about the Job - Maybe im just, you know, watching the full half of the glass.

And we don\\'t know much if anything of the Lore about the Job.

You just mad you ain\\'t getting thief.
Now if the caster is a Necromancer i will be the most happy being alive in existence for about a week. But if it isn\\'t, im sure im not coming here to just try to pass opinion as a fact on why whatever caster class is, is bad for extremely irrelevant reasons.

1. Do not misrepresent me, projection belies a really poor understanding of the argument. I am not mad I am not getting thief. I never needed or wanted a thief class. I am disappointed that we were this close to getting a Ranger/Hunter class and instead got an edgelord Assassin with perhaps the shallowest motif I have seen in the game thus far.

2. Dual/twinblades and you are done, huh? That seems quite the opposite of inspired, cohesive, synergistic and good design. That seems like they could have slapped dual blades on any job regardless of other design factors (which in fact they somewhat did here), and you still would have bought into it. That's incredibly undiscerning, and while good for you for being easily satisfied I guess, some of us just aren't into shovelware Korean MMO design. Maybe the game is changing and this is the target market now, but I may not be part of it if this is the new standard for class design.

[Eisi]

1. Do not misrepresent me, projection belies a really poor understanding of the argument. I am not mad I am not getting thief. I never needed or wanted a thief class. I am disappointed that we were this close to getting a Ranger/Hunter class and instead got an edgelord Assassin with perhaps the shallowest motif I have seen in the game thus far.

2. Dual/twinblades and you are done, huh? That seems quite the opposite of inspired, cohesive, synergistic and good design. That seems like they could have slapped dual blades on any job regardless of other design factors (which in fact they somewhat did here), and you still would have bought into it. That's incredibly undiscerning, and while good for you for being easily satisfied I guess, some of us just aren't into shovelware Korean MMO design. Maybe the game is changing and this is the target market now, but I may not be part of it if this is the new standard for class design.

Calm down bro. We don't yet know the background story of Viper yet. Imagine saying this about any of the current jobs: "You think just slapping a ninja costume and daggers on a char and calling it a day is good design?" or "Paladin? That's the oldest shit in the book my dude, that's as uninspired as it gets."

I think you just don't like the aesthetic at the end of the day and that's fine. Don't flip out over the "playerbase" or whatever, you're making it way too big of a deal.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Dual/twinblades and you are done, huh? That seems quite the opposite of inspired, cohesive, synergistic and good design. That seems like they could have slapped dual blades on any job regardless of other design factors (which in fact they somewhat did here), and you still would have bought into it. That's incredibly undiscerning, and while good for you for being easily satisfied I guess, some of us just aren't into shovelware Korean MMO design. Maybe the game is changing and this is the target market now, but I may not be part of it if this is the new standard for class design.

With this line of, and im being generous, logic.
Basically all and any Job, or class, and at this point in any game could be dismissed as "meh", no one here is inventing any wheel nor discorvering electricity my friend... You are quite transparent to your own biases it seems. Kinda confusing your personal taste for actual objectivity, careful with that.


And calling it a "korean shovelware" actually reminded me of Lineage 2, Blade Dancer is probably one of the best classes i have ever had the pleasure of playing in any MMORPG.
"New standard for class design" try harder.

[SieyaM]

But it is inspired, cohesive, synergistic and really good.
.

There is no way any of us could possibly know this, we have literally seen a half minute trailer for the job that gave no real information.