What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Vahlnir]

Where is it canonically stated that a paradox is created when you time travel within the universe of Final Fantasy XIV?

They probably won't be able to answer that, because they (the writers) have not mentioned anything of the sort. The most that has been said in regard to time travel is that we should avoid discussing future events with the locals (like in Elpis) so that our future selves continue to exist. We ended up doing that anyway, and it changed absolutely nothing. It certainly didn't result in any sort of paradox. And the one person with the knowledge required to do anything ended up keeping it to herself, so...yeah. All of that said, the writers haven't really handled time travel very well in Endwalker, so I guess that does leave room for a lot of theories. The whole "convergence" thing that Hydaelyn talked about sort of...came out of nowhere, too. Nothing was changed, because she took it upon herself to keep things the way that they are presently. "Convergence" just sounds cooler I guess. In reality, all she did was guarantee that history was repeated.

[Nayukhuut]

They probably won't be able to answer that, because they (the writers) have not mentioned anything of the sort. The most that has been said in regard to time travel is that we should avoid discussing future events with the locals (like in Elpis) so that our future selves continue to exist. We ended up doing that anyway, and it changed absolutely nothing. It certainly didn't result in any sort of paradox. And the one person with the knowledge required to do anything ended up keeping it to herself, so...yeah. All of that said, the writers haven't really handled time travel very well in Endwalker, so I guess that does leave room for a lot of theories. The whole "convergence" thing that Hydaelyn talked about sort of...came out of nowhere, too. Nothing was changed, because she took it upon herself to keep things the way that they are presently. "Convergence" just sounds cooler I guess. In reality, all she did was guarantee that history was repeated.

You know what is even more annoying with all that? Venat's dialogue near the end of Elpis even mentions that we might end up finding our world very different when we are speaking to her before we leave. It gave me hope that the Venat, this time, might have been able to find a better solution, and that perhaps maybe a splinter timeline could have existed where the Ancients got a chance. She mentions not giving up on her species, but then does exactly that. I get that one of them is just general character being hopeful stuff, but the part about maybe finding our world being different gave me some sort of hope that maybe we would find a secret pocket of Ancients or something. There was nothing though.

Edit: And yes, I get that both lines were just platitudes that meant nothing, but at the time I was still hoping that somehow all these people I had come to quite like would be given a chance, even if it wasn't in my timeline.

[Turtledeluxe]

You know what is even more annoying with all that? Venat's dialogue near the end of Elpis even mentions that we might end up finding our world very different when we are speaking to her before we leave. It gave me hope that the Venat, this time, might have been able to find a better solution, and that perhaps maybe a splinter timeline could have existed where the Ancients got a chance. She mentions not giving up on her species, but then does exactly that. I get that one of them is just general character being hopeful stuff, but the part about maybe finding our world being different gave me some sort of hope that maybe we would find a secret pocket of Ancients or something. There was nothing though.

Edit: And yes, I get that both lines were just platitudes that meant nothing, but at the time I was still hoping that somehow all these people I had come to quite like would be given a chance, even if it wasn't in my timeline.

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years. Honestly what seems like platitudes is your post.

[Nayukhuut]

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years.

I wasn't asking to destroy the timeline we were in, but I had been kinda hoping for a G'raha like scenario where the Venat we talked to when we went back in time actually found a solution other than the Sundering and there was some sort of weird timeline we would never see except maybe in a website side story (like G'raha's original timeline.).

That or a pocket of Ancients somewhere on one of the Shards could have been cool, but that will never/was never going to happen.

I assure you though, I am not a troll. Just someone who was saddened by the story in Endwalker after joining during Shadowbringers and loving it very much.

[Turtledeluxe]

I wasn't asking to destroy the timeline we were in, but I had been kinda hoping for a G'raha like scenario where the Venat we talked to when we went back in time actually found a solution other than the Sundering and there was some sort of weird timeline we would never see except maybe in a website side story (like G'raha's original timeline.).

That or a pocket of Ancients somewhere on one of the Shards could have been cool, but that will never/was never going to happen.

I assure you though, I am not a troll. Just someone who was saddened by the story in Endwalker after joining during Shadowbringers and loving it very much.

Well the timeline idea is interesting except that I don't agree. I have the literal opposite perspective. I think if we got a side story it would be the Elpis visit timeline continued after we left and we got to see what an informed Venat actually did. I think the Elpis visit is the weird timeline you are talking about but it was simply cut off to avoid messing with the MSQ. Which is why I think it would be cool if it wasn't cut off and had nothing to do with MSQ. But if that happened you would not have the context of the Hydaelyn trial, the ending moment with Emet and Hythlo, the raids, etc so they transplanted it into the MSQ for those bonuses.

This is also a huge issue with the very first post ITT. Because we are literally never shown Venat "not lifting a finger", it is simply assumed to be the case because people assume the Elpis visit is the original msq timeline.

[Xirean]

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years. Honestly what seems like platitudes is your post.

Much like the WoL's journey to Elpis this conversation is a loop.

@YukikoKurosawa

Just a quick note on the time paradox bit. We know for a fact that changes can be made to the timeline and things continue uninhibited. G'raha still exists. The crystal tower still exists. He time traveled to undo a tragedy and as far as we know, that timeline still exists. Buildings and a person from that timeline still exist. This is why that idea that we can't change things falls flat. I've been shown through Alexander that time loops are a thing. I've also been shown through ShB that timelines are a thing. I see no reason to commit atrocities in the name of a time loop. I've mentioned this much previously in this thread, but put simply, it's obvious they didn't want to deal with multiple timelines, which is fine. Just don't do time travel then. Do time viewing. Let us see what happened without being able to interact with it. The sundering is a horrible event that occurred and was somewhat implied to be an accident. Now with EW that event was given purpose and intention. All other issues with EW aside, this is the single biggest issue I take with the games story. Especially because it's so easily resolved even without deleting existing content.

She literally couldn't do anything but what she did because she knew doing anything else would mess up the timeline and you would cease to exist.

Sorry, can't resist.

[Turtledeluxe]

Much like the WoL's journey to Elpis this conversation is a loop.

Yes we have always agreed on this. It isn't that I don't understand other theories, it that people who subscribe to the single timeline time loop scenario do not understand other theories, which is why I had to post so much. It is not because I am fiercely arguing but rather restating myself so many times and hopefully that is apparent to people who read my last 10 posts or so.

But most importantly, it is why I don't get the Venat accusations in any capacity. Venat changing the og timeline has serious implications for the game and story on a fundamental level. So the issue with EW should not be Venat not lifting a finger (which we never directly observe nor are we told about, it is an assumption), but rather the use of a time loop itself which misleads the player into believing things can change. Hence the OP of the thread who poisoned the well and spawned tens of new people who are just haters.

[stenovrain]

You know what is even more annoying with all that? Venat's dialogue near the end of Elpis even mentions that we might end up finding our world very different when we are speaking to her before we leave. It gave me hope that the Venat, this time, might have been able to find a better solution, and that perhaps maybe a splinter timeline could have existed where the Ancients got a chance. She mentions not giving up on her species, but then does exactly that. I get that one of them is just general character being hopeful stuff, but the part about maybe finding our world being different gave me some sort of hope that maybe we would find a secret pocket of Ancients or something. There was nothing though.

Edit: And yes, I get that both lines were just platitudes that meant nothing, but at the time I was still hoping that somehow all these people I had come to quite like would be given a chance, even if it wasn't in my timeline.

Yeah, storytelling wide this is textbook lazy writing, because a story shouldn't have "platitudes that mean nothing." I thought the writers must know what Chekhov's Gun means but apparently they don't.