What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

No I haven't. It's well understood that when you travel to a point in time where another version of you exists, it creates a temporal paradox. Which is why I believe the Elpis visit itself is supposed to be considered a deviated alternate timeline that essentially conjoins with the present mostly for fanservice effect (the Hydaelyn trial, the Emet pop up at the end m, the raids, etc). The WoL can interact with this timeline to essentially do things Azem would have thereotically done in the same time. That is the idea.

Where is it canonically stated that a paradox is created when you time travel within the universe of Final Fantasy XIV?

[Vahlnir]

Where is it canonically stated that a paradox is created when you time travel within the universe of Final Fantasy XIV?

They probably won't be able to answer that, because they (the writers) have not mentioned anything of the sort. The most that has been said in regard to time travel is that we should avoid discussing future events with the locals (like in Elpis) so that our future selves continue to exist. We ended up doing that anyway, and it changed absolutely nothing. It certainly didn't result in any sort of paradox. And the one person with the knowledge required to do anything ended up keeping it to herself, so...yeah. All of that said, the writers haven't really handled time travel very well in Endwalker, so I guess that does leave room for a lot of theories. The whole "convergence" thing that Hydaelyn talked about sort of...came out of nowhere, too. Nothing was changed, because she took it upon herself to keep things the way that they are presently. "Convergence" just sounds cooler I guess. In reality, all she did was guarantee that history was repeated.

[Nayukhuut]

They probably won't be able to answer that, because they (the writers) have not mentioned anything of the sort. The most that has been said in regard to time travel is that we should avoid discussing future events with the locals (like in Elpis) so that our future selves continue to exist. We ended up doing that anyway, and it changed absolutely nothing. It certainly didn't result in any sort of paradox. And the one person with the knowledge required to do anything ended up keeping it to herself, so...yeah. All of that said, the writers haven't really handled time travel very well in Endwalker, so I guess that does leave room for a lot of theories. The whole "convergence" thing that Hydaelyn talked about sort of...came out of nowhere, too. Nothing was changed, because she took it upon herself to keep things the way that they are presently. "Convergence" just sounds cooler I guess. In reality, all she did was guarantee that history was repeated.

You know what is even more annoying with all that? Venat's dialogue near the end of Elpis even mentions that we might end up finding our world very different when we are speaking to her before we leave. It gave me hope that the Venat, this time, might have been able to find a better solution, and that perhaps maybe a splinter timeline could have existed where the Ancients got a chance. She mentions not giving up on her species, but then does exactly that. I get that one of them is just general character being hopeful stuff, but the part about maybe finding our world being different gave me some sort of hope that maybe we would find a secret pocket of Ancients or something. There was nothing though.

Edit: And yes, I get that both lines were just platitudes that meant nothing, but at the time I was still hoping that somehow all these people I had come to quite like would be given a chance, even if it wasn't in my timeline.

[Xirean]

It isn't. I've already said that several times by excessively referring to my ideas as opinions. The devs haven't confirmed or denied but rather offered "maybes" and "form your own opinion on it". So that's what I did. And I'm not the only one...it is a very common idea.

And that's different from headcanon how?

[Turtledeluxe]

And that's different from headcanon how?

The version of Venat you are painting does not officially exist either, I am sorry to tell you.

At least my interpretation of the events solves problems with the story vs creating frustrating illogical characters and situations thet make you think the writers have no idea what they are doing.

Most people liked and have moved on from 6.0 and I honestly find it depressing that there's still this topic about it up every week, haters hating bc strong woman did something I guess (idk what it is tbh). I don't buy that you're all still upset about an MSQ.

[Turtledeluxe]

You know what is even more annoying with all that? Venat's dialogue near the end of Elpis even mentions that we might end up finding our world very different when we are speaking to her before we leave. It gave me hope that the Venat, this time, might have been able to find a better solution, and that perhaps maybe a splinter timeline could have existed where the Ancients got a chance. She mentions not giving up on her species, but then does exactly that. I get that one of them is just general character being hopeful stuff, but the part about maybe finding our world being different gave me some sort of hope that maybe we would find a secret pocket of Ancients or something. There was nothing though.

Edit: And yes, I get that both lines were just platitudes that meant nothing, but at the time I was still hoping that somehow all these people I had come to quite like would be given a chance, even if it wasn't in my timeline.

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years. Honestly what seems like platitudes is your post.

[Nayukhuut]

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years.

I wasn't asking to destroy the timeline we were in, but I had been kinda hoping for a G'raha like scenario where the Venat we talked to when we went back in time actually found a solution other than the Sundering and there was some sort of weird timeline we would never see except maybe in a website side story (like G'raha's original timeline.).

That or a pocket of Ancients somewhere on one of the Shards could have been cool, but that will never/was never going to happen.

I assure you though, I am not a troll. Just someone who was saddened by the story in Endwalker after joining during Shadowbringers and loving it very much.

[Turtledeluxe]

I wasn't asking to destroy the timeline we were in, but I had been kinda hoping for a G'raha like scenario where the Venat we talked to when we went back in time actually found a solution other than the Sundering and there was some sort of weird timeline we would never see except maybe in a website side story (like G'raha's original timeline.).

That or a pocket of Ancients somewhere on one of the Shards could have been cool, but that will never/was never going to happen.

I assure you though, I am not a troll. Just someone who was saddened by the story in Endwalker after joining during Shadowbringers and loving it very much.

Well the timeline idea is interesting except that I don't agree. I have the literal opposite perspective. I think if we got a side story it would be the Elpis visit timeline continued after we left and we got to see what an informed Venat actually did. I think the Elpis visit is the weird timeline you are talking about but it was simply cut off to avoid messing with the MSQ. Which is why I think it would be cool if it wasn't cut off and had nothing to do with MSQ. But if that happened you would not have the context of the Hydaelyn trial, the ending moment with Emet and Hythlo, the raids, etc so they transplanted it into the MSQ for those bonuses.

This is also a huge issue with the very first post ITT. Because we are literally never shown Venat "not lifting a finger", it is simply assumed to be the case because people assume the Elpis visit is the original msq timeline.

[Xirean]

Your ranting doesn't even make sense please stop. If you believe the Elpis visit is what actually happened pre 1.0 then if Venat tampered with the timeline as a result of the future info, it could theoretically destroy the future we exist in. This is why I keep thinking its trolling at this point because you can't seriously not understand this.

Since you have clearly dwelled on it for two years. Honestly what seems like platitudes is your post.

Much like the WoL's journey to Elpis this conversation is a loop.

@YukikoKurosawa

Just a quick note on the time paradox bit. We know for a fact that changes can be made to the timeline and things continue uninhibited. G'raha still exists. The crystal tower still exists. He time traveled to undo a tragedy and as far as we know, that timeline still exists. Buildings and a person from that timeline still exist. This is why that idea that we can't change things falls flat. I've been shown through Alexander that time loops are a thing. I've also been shown through ShB that timelines are a thing. I see no reason to commit atrocities in the name of a time loop. I've mentioned this much previously in this thread, but put simply, it's obvious they didn't want to deal with multiple timelines, which is fine. Just don't do time travel then. Do time viewing. Let us see what happened without being able to interact with it. The sundering is a horrible event that occurred and was somewhat implied to be an accident. Now with EW that event was given purpose and intention. All other issues with EW aside, this is the single biggest issue I take with the games story. Especially because it's so easily resolved even without deleting existing content.

She literally couldn't do anything but what she did because she knew doing anything else would mess up the timeline and you would cease to exist.

Sorry, can't resist.

[fulminating]

Don’t worry pal, in 3 expansions when the remaining shards have been exhausted with a bizarre series of murder-suicides and someone has spent 10 minutes of cutscene budget pouring the remnants of zodiark and that golbez memorial crystal down the pc’s throat, I’m confident the wol will be azem. The door to elpis is still open, just needs moved back a little further for the warrior of light to always have been azem. All mention of divergent species and inability to use creation magic will need glossed over, but for the former just play hyur and the latter is basically praying really hard. Actually playing hyur isn’t even necessary given the ancient’s propensity for anonymising robes and masks who would really be able to tell if they were a lalafell? Given what we know about them, it would be a faux pas to ask.

Speaking of bizarre murder-suicides, if dawntrial does draw heavy inspiration from ff5, it could well incorporate another excursion across the void and thus incidental acquisition of soul fragment.