Summoner 7.0 Wishlist

[Monokhrom]

Please give summoner kaiten. It’d be sooooo funny!

[Ggwppino]

Literally impossible. Demisummoning is the root cause of all ghosting problems. No iteration of Summoner will ever exist without ghosting problems (including EW) without first scraping the demi mechanic.

fix demisummoning, treating pet and demi as two different entities

[LoadedVirus]

I think we should just disappear like other FF games and just control the summon ourselves, don't even need to change the rotation.

[Flana]

fix demisummoning, treating pet and demi as two different entities

You cannot fix demisummoning. Ghosting is a result of the any pet entity that has a hard cutoff, and that is exactly what demisummoning does. It summons and then kills a new pet, causing a hard cutoff. You can still ghost gem summons because the pet has to spawn in, then attack, then despawn at a specific time. Even if carbuncle literally did not exist, you can still easily ghost an ability from the demi/gem summons because of the absurd animation delay on spawn in and their refusal to retarget if something dies (such as an add) before the ability/auto goes off.

You cannot seperate ghosting from the demisummon mechanic. It is an in-built feature, and somehow SquareEnix still hasn't figured that out yet.

[Raikai]

You cannot fix demisummoning. Ghosting is a result of the any pet entity that has a hard cutoff, and that is exactly what demisummoning does. It summons and then kills a new pet, causing a hard cutoff. You can still ghost gem summons because the pet has to spawn in, then attack, then despawn at a specific time. Even if carbuncle literally did not exist, you can still easily ghost an ability from the demi/gem summons because of the absurd animation delay on spawn in and their refusal to retarget if something dies (such as an add) before the ability/auto goes off.

You cannot seperate ghosting from the demisummon mechanic. It is an in-built feature, and somehow SquareEnix still hasn't figured that out yet.

I know it's a problem with Demis because they stick around for a while... but I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just convert the gemstone summons into animations rather than pet entity replacements? At the very least the carby would stick around for longer and the Radiant Aegis would be less unreliable.

[Ggwppino]

You cannot fix demisummoning. Ghosting is a result of the any pet entity that has a hard cutoff, and that is exactly what demisummoning does. It summons and then kills a new pet, causing a hard cutoff. You can still ghost gem summons because the pet has to spawn in, then attack, then despawn at a specific time. Even if carbuncle literally did not exist, you can still easily ghost an ability from the demi/gem summons because of the absurd animation delay on spawn in and their refusal to retarget if something dies (such as an add) before the ability/auto goes off.

You cannot seperate ghosting from the demisummon mechanic. It is an in-built feature, and somehow SquareEnix still hasn't figured that out yet.

Why not?
the elementals are one entity and the carbuncle is another entity. Physically in the game there could be 2 different objects. One for the carbuncle, one for the elemental.
It doesn't exist now, clearly, it needs to be implemented, but with my subscription money they could.

[Flana]

I know it's a problem with Demis because they stick around for a while... but I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just convert the gemstone summons into animations rather than pet entity replacements? At the very least the carby would stick around for longer and the Radiant Aegis would be less unreliable.

Yes, this would fix the problem for gem summons (and rendering them no longer demi-summons). It's absurd SE even made them on the demi system in the first place given this godawful mechanic has been infesting Summoner for five years by then.

Why not?
the elementals are one entity and the carbuncle is another entity. Physically in the game there could be 2 different objects. One for the carbuncle, one for the elemental.
It doesn't exist now, clearly, it needs to be implemented, but with my subscription money they could.

You aren't understanding what the problem is. It's not because carbuncle exists. It wouldn't matter if you could have 2 pet entities active at a time, or if you deleted Carbuncle. Ghosting happens because a pet has a hard cut in its existence, which is how all demi/gem summons operate. They can only exist for a strict time period before dying, and any commands they have at that point are now lost.

I've lost banana/phoenix autos because it decided to walk 10 feet to me during a mechanic or because its current target died and it didn't relock until my next GCD. I've lost entire gem summons because the add in Hydaelyn died and the gem summon refused to relock onto the next one before despawning or gem summons in raids when the boss jumps and goes untargetable before the gem summon actually does it's attack well after you push the GCD. None of these have anything to do with Carbuncle.

Would making 2 pet entities make it easier to use Radiant Shield and stop carbuncle from ghosting? Yes.
Would it stop all ghosting from happening? No.

Ghosting is endemic to how Demi/Gem summons are designed. You cannot 'fix' it. Ghosting will always exist for as long as demisummon mechanic exists. You can see in my above reply the easiest way to prevent gem summons from ever having the ability to ghost is to... not make them work like demisummons. You can bend over backwards ripping out everythinig from Summoner to make it less likely to happen, but you can never fix it so that ghosting will not occur at some point.

Delete demisummoning. Replace it with something else that isn't infested with this problem.

[Silverquick]

I know it's a problem with Demis because they stick around for a while... but I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just convert the gemstone summons into animations rather than pet entity replacements? At the very least the carby would stick around for longer and the Radiant Aegis would be less unreliable.

I can recall asking for that a long time ago, back in the day when they were still deciding on which direction to go with the Summoner. This is the system they apparently chose. They knew at the time they couldn't keep going with the Stormblood version because of all of the problems with both Egi controls, and Demis... I thought it would be the best way forward was just making them all animations.

But this is what they've chosen and I can't really complain... its just not quite what I imagined.

When I really look at SMN, the 86th level or therabouts where you get the additional powers instead of just spamming Ruin all the time is actually fun to play... but the levels between that can be a little boring just repeatedly spamming the same button, which is why I recommended a little change up in the earlier levels to add some complexity.

[Ggwppino]

Yes, this would fix the problem for gem summons (and rendering them no longer demi-summons). It's absurd SE even made them on the demi system in the first place given this godawful mechanic has been infesting Summoner for five years by then.



You aren't understanding what the problem is. It's not because carbuncle exists. It wouldn't matter if you could have 2 pet entities active at a time, or if you deleted Carbuncle. Ghosting happens because a pet has a hard cut in its existence, which is how all demi/gem summons operate. They can only exist for a strict time period before dying, and any commands they have at that point are now lost.

I've lost banana/phoenix autos because it decided to walk 10 feet to me during a mechanic or because its current target died and it didn't relock until my next GCD. I've lost entire gem summons because the add in Hydaelyn died and the gem summon refused to relock onto the next one before despawning or gem summons in raids when the boss jumps and goes untargetable before the gem summon actually does it's attack well after you push the GCD. None of these have anything to do with Carbuncle.

Would making 2 pet entities make it easier to use Radiant Shield and stop carbuncle from ghosting? Yes.
Would it stop all ghosting from happening? No.

Ghosting is endemic to how Demi/Gem summons are designed. You cannot 'fix' it. Ghosting will always exist for as long as demisummon mechanic exists. You can see in my above reply the easiest way to prevent gem summons from ever having the ability to ghost is to... not make them work like demisummons. You can bend over backwards ripping out everythinig from Summoner to make it less likely to happen, but you can never fix it so that ghosting will not occur at some point.

Delete demisummoning. Replace it with something else that isn't infested with this problem.

What you are describing is like entering OH or LotD at the wrong time.
If I summon phoenix when the boss is not targetable, the only one to blame is me. If I summon Ifrit right before the boss becomes untargetable, the only one to blame is me and next time I advance it by 1 GCD, even 2 (Because we are all aware that an elemental's attack takes about 2.5 seconds: it's like if it's casting the attack).

In shB/SB the ghosting was real because between the melee attacks that weren't insta cast for the pet, the autoattack that made all the commands slip and the transformation of the pet into Baha/Phoenix made everything unpredictable: absolutely a mess. Before SB the pet system works really fine. When they inserted a cut into the pet's flow causing it to transform, the mess started.
In this expansion to avoid this they made the carbuncle a dummy (Ironic, the smn had also been reworked to avoid this and instead it had just inherited it for the simple fact that the carbuncle disappears)

If you treat the carbuncle and the other summons as separate entities, ghosting due to rotation is impossible to happen, especially if you impose on elementals about 5 seconds of lock between one summon and another as happens now.
If the carbuncle were an entity in itself, it could have real support abilities or indirect attacks (such as dots to be placed on the ground like Garuda's), if the carbuncle were an entity in itself I could manage its position during the fight and position it at the better (it could have shields/heal aoe or single target, buff, rescue as a TP, dot or simply long-range instant attacks).

Demisummoning works well for elementals and bahamut/phoenix for the simple fact that they were designed to last a short time and with the addition of summon lock their presence is solid.
The carbuncle wasnt designed to last a short time and therefore should be freed from the rest of the summons as an entity in its own right.

[Xiozen]

Would love to see smn get Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan as part of an enhanced rotation. Also in FFXI smn avatars could "skillchain" with each other. Would be great to implement a feature like this, when two different primals combo'd off of each other.