Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[ty_taurus]

I'm sorry to burst this bubble people have talked about for like 8 years but when you say "healers need something to do during (alleged) downtime" can you be more specific? I see people say this all the time but never suggest anything. Perhaps because we all know there is nothing to do other than damage and fights barely have what would be classified as downtime..

In other words why not just say what you mean...healers should do top dps bc why exactly? They are not a DPS.

Tanks aren't DPS either.

[Absimiliard]

Tanks aren't DPS either.

What does that even have to do with what that dude said?

like beneficial buffs or hindering debuffs for the boss

This. This right here. Moving the role from "healing" to "support" suddenly makes everything a lot better for all involved parties without completely abandoning the trinity.

Healers want something to do, tanks want to be self-sufficient, and DPS don't want to die. Seems like a net win.

[ty_taurus]

What does that even have to do with what that dude said?

If Healers aren't DPS, and thus should not receive DPS abilities, then why isn't that logic applied to tanks as well? They get new DPS abilities every expansion and they aren't DPS. Why don't they just get an obligatory upgrade to their basic combo buttons and get 2 or 3 new defensive cooldowns instead?

[Absimiliard]

If Healers aren't DPS, and thus should not receive DPS abilities, then why isn't that logic applied to tanks as well? They get new DPS abilities every expansion and they aren't DPS. Why don't they just get an obligatory upgrade to their basic combo buttons and get 2 or 3 new defensive cooldowns instead?

They do not seem to have been making a point relating specifically to the number of abilities healers have available. They were directly accusing people of simply wanting healers to have high DPS. In other words, obvious bait.

Tanks do not have high DPS, and people are not asking for tanks to have more DPS outside of being in a state of parity with one another. Thus your response to the incredibly obvious bait comes off as taking a role that had nothing to do with this leg of the conversation and throwing it right under a bus because you're mad that healers are in a crap spot.

[ty_taurus]

They do not seem to have been making a point relating specifically to the number of abilities healers have available. They were directly accusing people of simply wanting healers to have high DPS. In other words, obvious bait.

Tanks do not have high DPS, and people are not asking for tanks to have more DPS outside of being in a state of parity with one another. Thus your response to the incredibly obvious bait comes off as taking a role that had nothing to do with this leg of the conversation and throwing it right under a bus because you're mad that healers are in a crap spot.

I glossed over the word "top" in "top DPS" since that's not an counter argument I've seen anyone accuse the healer criticism of, so sorry for the misunderstanding. I would've corrected that, but the conversation is moving so quickly that there's no real point. My point isn't bait, for the record, though. I just want fair treatment between the two non-DPS roles. I don't want tanks dragged down to the healers; I want the healers raised up to the tanks, even if the tank role itself isn't perfect either.

[Absimiliard]

I glossed over the word "top" in "top DPS" since that's not an counter argument I've seen anyone accuse the healer criticism of, so sorry for the misunderstanding. I would've corrected that, but the conversation is moving so quickly that there's no real point. My point isn't bait, for the record, though. I just want fair treatment between the two non-DPS roles. I don't want tanks dragged down to the healers; I want the healers raised up to the tanks, even if the tank role itself isn't perfect either.

I don't necessarily think they should have the same amount of DPS as the tanks unless they're put in a situation where they have to invest an equal amount of effort. As it stands currently, the tanks play like melee DPS without positional requirements.

[ty_taurus]

I don't necessarily think they should have the same amount of DPS as the tanks unless they're put in a situation where they have to invest an equal amount of effort. As it stands currently, the tanks play like DPS without positional requirements.

And the healer players play like level 6 DPS for the majority of the fight in the majority of content in this game. Nothing makes my yeast rise quite like mashing Dosis III until my fingers bleed and using Kerachole twice in 3 minutes.

[Aravell]

Healers want something to do, tanks want to be self-sufficient, and DPS don't want to die. Seems like a net win.

I honestly don't mind if tanks are reasonably self-sufficient, but it's an increasingly growing issue that tanks can also heal the party. It's reasonable that a tank doesn't want to fully rely on the healer to survive tankbusters and such, it's completely unreasonable for a tank to also be capable of healing the party because that spits in the face of the trinity.

[Absimiliard]

I honestly don't mind if tanks are reasonably self-sufficient, but it's an increasingly growing issue that tanks can also heal the party. It's reasonable that a tank doesn't want to fully rely on the healer to survive tankbusters and such, it's completely unreasonable for a tank to also be capable of healing the party because that spits in the face of the trinity.

In fairness, the trinity is kinda done to death at this point. A lot of games are moving away from it. Heck, even WoW has been gradually moving away from it by making tanks and DPS increasingly capable of supporting themselves and others. Anyway, I think a limited amount of party healing is fine. They just shouldn't be able to spam it.

And that heal on Shake it Off? Wtf was even the point of adding that? WAR was the last job they needed to add more healing to. I for one thoroughly enjoy WAR in its present state, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why that particular change seemed a good idea.

[Aravell]

In fairness, the trinity is kinda done to death at this point. A lot of games are moving away from it. Heck, even WoW has been gradually moving away from it by making tanks and DPS increasingly capable of supporting themselves and others. Anyway, I think a limited amount of party healing is fine. They just shouldn't be able to spam it.

And that heal on Shake it Off? Wtf was even the point of adding that? WAR was the last job they needed to add more healing to.

The way I see it, party shields are fine as tanks are meant to protect the party. Party healing is stepping on the toes of the healer in the party, if tanks can also heal, what's the point of a healer? If one wants to make a trinity game, they need to respect the boundaries of the trinity.