Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Rithy255]

Funny thing is that this is you dont even need healers to clear the latest ultimate...

[sindriiisgaming]

This is effectively what the lead designer of this game told Healers in the latest live letter.

Consider if he had said that about your role (tank / dps) for a second and how you would feel.

Forget the leveling experience, it doesn't matter.

Forget dungeons up to 90, they don't matter.

Forget normal raids, EX's, and Savage, they don't matter.

If you want your job to be engaging, play Ultimate, the hardest content in the game that only a few percentage of actual players do.

Engagement shouldn't be either 0% or 100%. It shouldn't be either braindead easy in 95% of content or pull your hair out in the hardest thing the game offers.

The same basic damage rotation from level 4 to level 90 (A 30s dot and a filler spell) is not acceptable gameplay or game design.

Edit:

Yoshi-P's statement is about as tone deaf as the Lead Designer of WoW flat out saying they didn't want players playing a certain DPS spec. (Language warning)

Background: Instead of properly balancing a certain DPS spec, the WoW devs nuked it to the ground so people would play other things.

Sound familiar?

so i watched what he said and youve definetly taken him out of context here.

what he said was
"if you are comparing the 5.4 raid to 6.0 then you are comparing a tier III wing with tier I. tier I is designed to be easier while people adapt to the new jobs and learn rotations, we want as many as possible to clear it.
he said if still after the final fight of tier III you are not finding healing challenging, then yes ultimate is probabbly the next course for you.

to many people in this game play healer wanting to do as little healing as as much dps as possible, but you are a healer.. not a dps green or red. and if you dont enjoy healing, why are you playing it. the amount of dps healers do right now is proportionate to what they should be doing, if youre wanting to see healers doing more dps than tanks and dps themselves i think youre living in coocoo land.

prefix > im not saying the state of healing or jobs rn is ok. sage is a very good step in the right direction with its heals being dps relevant. i want to see all healers functioning that way, not because i want to do gigachad dps... but because i want the job to keep me awake

[Sebazy]

to many people in this game play healer wanting to do as little healing as as much dps as possible

Correction:

In high end organised content they want you to do as little OVERhealing as possible thus giving you more opportunity to maximise your DPS. That's quite a significant difference.

but you are a healer.. not a dps green or red. and if you dont enjoy healing, why are you playing it.

Are you sure about that?

Lets take an 8:10 fight

112 DPS GCDs
52 healing GCDs

That was my first P4S pt2 clear, it was low low grey, I was wildly overcautious and safe and I'm a historic overhealer at the best of times (Literal world top 10 HPS in Gordias for what thats worth).

Yet I still pushed my Glare button 5.8x more than any other button in my kit.

I enjoy healing, I want to heal and I want to be under pressure to heal. This game has managed it in the past. Healing Coil was a great time, healing Gordias and Midas was an experience, healing Sigmascape was a wild ride. What we have now though? Unless you start Savage late with a bunch of additional gear, you're a DPS Harry, because if you don't squirt out even that miserable grey log, your group probably isn't beating enrage.

That's not healing. That's DPSing with spurts of healing in between.

You know who wants you do as little healing as possible? Yoshida's Savage and Ultimate design teams.

[IDontPetLalas]

so i watched what he said and youve definetly taken him out of context here.

what he said was
"if you are comparing the 5.4 raid to 6.0 then you are comparing a tier III wing with tier I. tier I is designed to be easier while people adapt to the new jobs and learn rotations, we want as many as possible to clear it.
he said if still after the final fight of tier III you are not finding healing challenging, then yes ultimate is probabbly the next course for you.

to many people in this game play healer wanting to do as little healing as as much dps as possible, but you are a healer.. not a dps green or red. and if you dont enjoy healing, why are you playing it. the amount of dps healers do right now is proportionate to what they should be doing, if youre wanting to see healers doing more dps than tanks and dps themselves i think youre living in coocoo land.

prefix > im not saying the state of healing or jobs rn is ok. sage is a very good step in the right direction with its heals being dps relevant. i want to see all healers functioning that way, not because i want to do gigachad dps... but because i want the job to keep me awake

• 1. Did you actually read the question? he didn't actually answer all of the question
  2. Healers are green DPS in this game, just as tanks are blue DPS, however who said anywhere that healers expected to do the most DPS (by the way - no need to be so insulting)
  3. Who said that they don't enjoy healing?
  4. Do you actually expect that healers spend all of their time in group content? Shouldn't that be engaging?

[Deceptus]

Do note though that, at least as I Recall, the original question submitted was more about healer Engagement overall with raids as an example. Which was then basicly butchered to 'why is healing in p1-4s easy'

This is correct, the original question was butchered like Yoshi does with most player proposed healing questions during the live letters.

The question was: "Healers are shelved in most content, what are you going to do about it". The devs addressed: "Why is healing in savages not "engaging"" They were asked one thing and ignored it. Quick side note, the original question was the HIGHEST upvoted question on the request thread. People wanted an answer to the question.

IMHO CBU3 job design team has no idea what to do with healers anymore. Adding 10 potency to an AoE? Completely not understanding how certain healing are even played (removing energy drain twice without any MP gaining recompense), completely getting basic math wrong on upgrade abilities (WHM Aero 2 vs Dia)

[Supersnow845]

This is correct, the original question was butchered like Yoshi does with most player proposed healing questions during the live letters.

The question was: "Healers are shelved in most content, what are you going to do about it". The devs addressed: "Why is healing in savages not "engaging"" They were asked one thing and ignored it. Quick side note, the original question was the HIGHEST upvoted question on the request thread. People wanted an answer to the question.

IMHO CBU3 job design team has no idea what to do with healers anymore. Adding 10 potency to an AoE? Completely not understanding how certain healing are even played (removing energy drain twice without any MP gaining recompense), completely getting basic math wrong on upgrade abilities (WHM Aero 2 vs Dia)

That question is also basically what caused the backslide we are seeing now from “if you don’t like the question butcher it to answer a different question” to “just ignore the controversial questions entirely and answer the most upvoted softball question”

So now we get almost zero answers to anything at all

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm sorry to burst this bubble people have talked about for like 8 years but when you say "healers need something to do during (alleged) downtime" can you be more specific? I see people say this all the time but never suggest anything. Perhaps because we all know there is nothing to do other than damage and fights barely have what would be classified as downtime..

In other words why not just say what you mean...healers should do top dps bc why exactly? They are not a DPS.

[ty_taurus]

I'm sorry to burst this bubble people have talked about for like 8 years but when you say "healers need something to do during (alleged) downtime" can you be more specific? I see people say this all the time but never suggest anything. Perhaps because we all know there is nothing to do other than damage and fights barely have what would be classified as downtime..

In other words why not just say what you mean...healers should do top dps bc why exactly? They are not a DPS.

Tanks aren't DPS either.

[Supersnow845]

I'm sorry to burst this bubble people have talked about for like 8 years but when you say "healers need something to do during (alleged) downtime" can you be more specific? I see people say this all the time but never suggest anything. Perhaps because we all know there is nothing to do other than damage and fights barely have what would be classified as downtime..

In other words why not just say what you mean...healers should do top dps bc why exactly? They are not a DPS.

“Fights barely have any downtime”

You mean besides those minute+ periods where the boss stands around maybe occasionally slapping the tank or doing a godly simple mechanic, in casual content a boss like byregot literally does 2 instances of raidwide damage in 7 minutes, I have about 15 instances of raidwide healing in a 2 minute period and I don’t even have to drop damage for it, even in savage a 9 minute fight usually only has like 5 big mechanics then the rest of the time the boss is just standing there and maybe casts a raidwide

“You want healers to do top DPS”

No the amount of damage healers do is totally fine it’s how said damage is done that is boring as hell, either give us a more interesting way to do the amount of damage we are currently doing or give us something else to juggle like beneficial buffs or hindering debuffs for the boss

[Absimiliard]

Tanks aren't DPS either.

What does that even have to do with what that dude said?

like beneficial buffs or hindering debuffs for the boss

This. This right here. Moving the role from "healing" to "support" suddenly makes everything a lot better for all involved parties without completely abandoning the trinity.

Healers want something to do, tanks want to be self-sufficient, and DPS don't want to die. Seems like a net win.