What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rufalus]

In a way, FF XIV is the Final Fantasy series now. The time gaps between the new numbered single player games has become very large (XIII to XV to XVI) but we have a new XIV expansion story every 2-3 years. As such I wish they'd break the formula more to provide new experiences and narrative styles within this game.

I think guest writers and creators would help challenge conventions. XIV has become very stuck in predictable tropes or 'anime moments' which is also why people disliked the last third of XVI. We've seen the power of friendship pull through many times, we've seen mysterious hooded person watching from a distance. We need some surprising new outcomes.

[Theodric]

In a way, FF XIV is the Final Fantasy series now. The time gaps between the new numbered single player games has become very large (XIII to XV to XVI) but we have a new XIV expansion story every 2-3 years. As such I wish they'd break the formula more to provide new experiences and narrative styles within this game.

I think guest writers and creators would help challenge conventions. XIV has become very stuck in predictable tropes or 'anime moments' which is also why people disliked the last third of XVI. We've seen the power of friendship pull through many times, we've seen mysterious hooded person watching from a distance. We need some surprising new outcomes.

I'd like them to be bolder but at the moment they seem overly obsessed with the idea of catering to new players even at the expense of those who have been playing for a while. I think they've dug themselves a deep whole that they can't really climb out of, since they've attracted a lot of players similar to the one above your post where any nuance and depth is either loathed or ignored in favour of reductionist takes that reframe even the most complex moral predicament as black and white storytelling.

That isn't helped, of course, by the writers themselves often turning entire nations or individuals into complete caricatures - and that's not a problem exclusive to the antagonists. G'raha is perhaps one of the most prominent examples of a character hijacked in such a manner.

The writers seem outright terrified of changing the status quo where the Scions are concerned. If we get a new character on board, it isn't long before they adopt the exact same opinions and beliefs as the rest of the Scions. Zero intrigued me for all of five minutes - a more mercenary individual was a refreshing change of pace and a reflection of an actual personality type that exists in the real world. Instead of letting her remain as such we had a rather infantile story arc where she learns what a 'friend' is.

It's not the sort of storytelling that drew me to this setting back in the days of ARR.

Add in the lack of stakes, lasting consequences and risk of death for the protagonists and it leads to a situation where there's a degree of stagnation rarely seen in other MMO's.

Ideally the game should be more willing to seek to please a broader variety of personal tastes. Not every character or faction is going to appeal to absolutely everybody and that's perfectly fine - but their current model basically screws over everyone who isn't fond of the Scions to some extent. The cast is too bloated to the point where even when it makes sense for a different character deeply tied to a specific thing to show up they're lucky to get a cameo or brief acknowledgement in dialogue.

[Musashidon]

Ideally the game should be more willing to seek to please a broader variety of personal tastes.

the problem is we are the good guys that is the story everything we do is good, heck when we became the warrior of darkness we stayed the good guy even though the ones before us were bad guys.

people aren't playing to be bad guys so anyone who wants to be the bad guy will always be unhappy.

[Nayukhuut]

I would argue that after Endwalker we are not exactly the good guys either. More like the hypocritical do as we say and not as we do guys. :P

[Theodric]

the problem is we are the good guys that is the story everything we do is good, heck when we became the warrior of darkness we stayed the good guy even though the ones before us were bad guys.

people aren't playing to be bad guys so anyone who wants to be the bad guy will always be unhappy.

It's not a case of wanting to play as a 'bad guy', though. Furthermore whether a character or faction is in fact 'good' or 'bad' is largely subjective in many situations. It's easy for the characters who are lucky enough to be specifically empowered and revived if they die to go around doing good whereas pretty much every 'bad guy' turns out to not have that luxury and the stakes are higher, so their hands inevitably and understandably get bloody and dirty in the process. Yet I'd note that darker elements to characters have proven to be fairly popular in games where they're available. I wasn't referring to playable characters, though - I was specifically referring to variety within the core cast and I don't think there's a reason why every character the player interacts with needs to be pushed as pure and righteous. With Endwalker making the so called 'good guys' knowingly complicit in and praising Venat's act of genocide and racial replacement, it's rather difficult for me to take such artificial limitations seriously.

Not in the least when other MMO's, such as WoW and ESO, have no issue allowing players to interact with a broader variety of character archetypes - and even play them themselves, if they so wish.

[Musashidon]

Not in the least when other MMO's, such as WoW and ESO, have no issue allowing players to interact with a broader variety of character archetypes - and even play them themselves, if they so wish.

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

[Theodric]

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

The game, by its own admission, heavily takes inspiration from WoW and various other games. To the point of outright doing crossovers with completely different franchises altogether at times.

There's many different potential routes that the writers could take moving forward and the game can preach what it likes, no player has any obligation to perceive anything a particular way or even agree with it. Admittedly I don't really self insert in this game to the point many other FFXIV players seem to. Even as a roleplayer, I gave up on trying to roleplay in this game on the basis of the player being granted so little agency or meaningful dialogue choices.

I'm not sure how any of that equals an inability to have characters with more varied personalities to appeal to a broader variety of personal tastes, though.

The single player Final Fantasy games have no issue providing a main cast with more variety in terms of personalities and belief systems and it's perfectly possible for a story to bring a band of characters from very different backgrounds together to work alongside each other for the sake of a shared goal.

[Musashidon]

The single player Final Fantasy games have no issue providing a main cast with more variety in terms of personalities and belief systems and it's perfectly possible for a story to bring a band of characters from very different backgrounds together to work alongside each other for the sake of a shared goal.

i didn't say it wasn't possible i just said that wasn't the story ff14 was giving. ff14 is the simple you are a good guy and your teammates are the same.

heck the new dawntrail story is going to be chucked up to one side gets swindled by the bad guy and when you defeat him and put the ruler who sides with you morally in charge they will see the error in their ways. as that is how ff14 works story wise, the best out come besides that happening is the bad guy turns his thoughts around and lets the other guy lead for some weird ambiguous reason. but those are roughly the two options that will happen.

if someone likes a story like that or not i can't decide for people but that's how simple the story works. maybe just maybe someone may die since we havent had a scion death since what papalymo? as re-killing off minfilia doesn't count.

[Xeronia]

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

Except as I believe stated earlier if you found objection to how the story let Venat off with as worse of crimes as her enemies the whole "You are a good hero" falls kind of flat and makes it very hard to continue with the patch content that seems to not want to let the topic die in Pandemonium and Myths. My character doesn't really feel like who she was in previous expansions anymore because of the way the game glossed over Venat's actions and has been slowly taking away the more serious choices in conversation for more humorous ones. To me a lot of the modern patch content writing has made my character feel severely out of character and as if she lost several braincells sometime before Endwalker. Again that is my own view on it at least, the game no longer feels like it is taking as great of care with the serious implications of it's story and that is reflected in the writing and presentation of the characters.

[Vyrerus]

the problem is we are the good guys that is the story everything we do is good, heck when we became the warrior of darkness we stayed the good guy even though the ones before us were bad guys.

people aren't playing to be bad guys so anyone who wants to be the bad guy will always be unhappy.

You should do the Dark Knight questline sometime, and really pay attention to it when you do.

Our WoL is supposed to and does have an inner turmoil because they know deep down they are not always making the morally upstanding choice. They kill people with incredible violence rather often, in fact, and they feel extreme amounts of guilt.

This buried feeling externalizes itself during the DRK quest line, and the WoL's inner monologue is that their success in life is as a king whose throne is made of the bones of everyone who's stood in their way. They serve others to slay others. It's pretty dark.

And as Theodric has pointed out myriad times before, this is the kind of writing the game used to not shy away from. It used to bring real think pieces to the table. Ilberd is a great example. Raubahn standing over the spot Ilberd died in, ruminating on his own life vs. Ilberd's is a great example.

The story used to have stakes. It used to be a struggle. There were costs to saving the world. There were costs to do the right thing. Look at Papalymo. Look at Louisoix. Look at Thancred in ARR. By taking the path of saviors and heroes, they paid dearly.

Every cost to the heroes on our journey was referenced in Endwalker. And almost all of them were as old as Heavensward.


We're not asking to be the bad guys. We're asking to not be an unstoppable, morally supreme killing machine. We're asking for the cast and story to stop being woobiefied.