Results -9 to 0 of 1188

Threaded View

  1. #10
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    The biggest problem in healer design right now is, if you take the easy route and cut out the large amount of OGCD bloat......what do you fill the void with? Healer kits would be very, very barebones without all that bloat, what's the plan after that?
    This is actually a pretty good question.

    I think part of the answer is looking at how other games have handled this. For example, in WoW, Burning Crusade, what all abilities did Holy Priests have? Sure, downranking was still a thing back then, but that aside, they had different heals with different cast times, mana costs, and effects; and didn't have any "oGCDs" since oGCDs didn't exist in that game.

    For a start, not being oGCD doesn't mean things have to be completely removed. For example, Earthly Star could be an instant cast GCD spell useful for movement or planning out future healing needs. Divine Benison could be Stoneskin, which was a cast time GCD barrier spell with no CD in ARR and HW. Protect also had a cast time, so something like Temperance as a short duration mitigation could exist. Something with enough of an MP cost that spamming it when you don't need it is detrimental, but using it sparingly in advance of big attacks is wise. And as we know from Pneuma, spells can be GCDs with MP costs that still have CDs to limit excessive use.

    Point is, we have to first remove the idea that "oGCD or nothing" is the choice. There are very few abilities that work that way. For example, Tetra is(well, was) Cure 2 in oGCD form. But Assize isn't Medica. Ixochole isn't Prognosis. We can work out how similar is too similar, but Earthly Star is an oGCD that doesn't really have an overlap with any of the GCDs in AST's kit, for an example. And oGCDs that function in tandem with GCDs (Deploy, Plenary, etc) probably aren't a problem THEMSELVES.

    That said:

    Mitigation from DPS and Tanks: Arguably some of that does make sense (more DPSers than Tanks, though).
    Damage buttons: For some healers; I've literally been arguing this for over a year with the 4 Healers Model.
    GCD heal buttons: Other than converting oGCDs into GCDs where it makes sense to do so (again, Earthly Star as an example), this is only part of an overall healer design and encounter design thing.

    "cutting out the OGCD bloat is only one part of the solution": Isn't this literally what I said? "Healing needs a total top-down revamp" for example, but that's hardly the only thing I've said on this topic.

    .

    I think a big part of the problem is that people don't see oGCDs as "real" buttons. You cast Glare than Tetra than Glare than Assize than Glare than Glare than Benison than Glare than Temperance. What did you just do? "11111, that's so boring!". It's partly this player perception that, if it's not a GCD, it doesn't count, that has to be addressed. Either the playerbase can debase themselves of that (unlikely) or we can force oGCDs into being GCDs to do it for them. Though I do agree - and have said many times - that oGCDs should have a higher cost than GCDs unless they're weaker. Cure 2 should cost less than Tetra in terms of MP, because it has a cast time and triggers the GCD. Those are costs that it has, so Tetra needs a cost equivalent to that. "But it has a CD" isn't a cost, since that just means you can't use it a second time, it doesn't diminish its effect or functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    Cast bar...
    I can't be sure, but I feel like you aren't telling the truth.

    You guys call me a Sylphie all the time, but I don't "crumble when the first sign of stress/pressure starts to happen in normal content". "They straight up don't possess the mental capacity"; who are "they"? "Sylphies!" Who? "Them!" WHO?

    "TOP men..."

    You make all these statements about people that I'm sure you think exist, but seriously, why do you think people who only cast Medica 2 now would quit if healing became a game of "You just press Medica 2 over and over again"? That makes no sense. Even if you assume all the worst possible things you can about people who want to heal and not DPS - as you pretty much have - you're literally saying if healing was made to be what they basically DO ALREADY they'd quit. That...makes no sense.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    I would like to reiterate once again for the people who think a healer not being optimal will lead to an enrage in any content other than week 1 savage/current ultimates. If a SCH does not have Biolysis up for the entirety of an average P9S kill, a single direct crit Hyosho Ranryu (or equivalent potency skills from other dps) under raid buffs can completely make up for that lost damage.
    Is healer DPS significant or is it not?

    All the time:

    1) "Healers do 60% of a DPSers damage! Healers in this game are green DPS and always have been! Encounters are balanced around healer DPS! Healers are absolutely designed in this game to do DPS!"

    "So...then making their DPS harder is bad."

    2) "Nonononon, healer DPS is negligible and not doing it really doesn't affect anyone."

    (1) and (2) are contradictions. Saying "Well, (1) is only true in some very specific situations"...is still a contradiction with (2). Either healer DPS is relevant, in which case making it more involved affects everyone, or it's irrelevant, in which case it doesn't matter. It can't be simultaneously true AND false that healer DPS is relevant.

    .

    In any case, the reality is, changing up the DPS affects everyone. Anyone saying it doesn't isn't being truthful. So then the onus is on them to argue why it's still okay to do so. There arguments to be made for that, but they very much depend on HOW the DPS is changed and balanced. The bigger the gap, the more relevant it becomes and the more it affects people.

    Also: People shouldn't be going around insisting to others that things don't affect them in the first place when those people are saying it does. When you're telling people what matters TO THEM instead of listening to them tell you what matters to them, you're probably in the wrong.
    (0)
    Last edited by Renathras; 09-06-2023 at 10:23 PM. Reason: EDIT for length