Dancer is WAY too proc focused

[Spigg]

Fact is, we've had Jobs that were distinct and interesting. If people would stop complaining, it would stay that way or be more that way. Yeah, it sucks when you like the aesthetic of a Job but you personally don't enjoy playing it. In an ideal world, every Job would be where it matches the aesthetic, so that people who like the aesthetic probably enjoy the playstyle (e.g. if there was a Thief/Rogue Job with Greased Lightning giving that feel of a really fast, nimble attacker), but sometimes that just doesn't work out.

The nice thing is, we have a lot of different choices, and there's always glamour. Maybe you like BLM's big elemental attacks but don't like the DoTs and procs. There's RDM sitting right there waiting for you that might fit you better, and you can always wear BLM-ish glamours with pointy hats or the Vivi Dwarf helmet cosplay and RP as a THM that learned all kinds of elemental spells to master all the elements like Ang from Avatar.

Very well said. I understand that jobs need to add new abilities, as it keeps the class fresh and makes those who play the job excited. But it should never stray from its origins. Paladin losing their Phys/Magic buffs, Monk losing their positionals, and Samurai its Kaiten. I've always wanted to play something like a dark arts Dark Knight, as I wasn't around during heavensward, and that specific experience sounds really fun to me. But they axed it and now DRK is just a warrior with some extra edge. Each job should seek to fulfill a unique experience, and never stray from that specific experience. The magic of this game is that there is no restriction on what jobs you play, so really, if you don't like a job, instead of complaining about it, play something else. There really is (or was) something for almost everyone... and if there isn't a job that offers the playstyle you want, maybe they will add it in the future!

[VeolE]

Honestly, I wish everyone would take this advise of yours.

The reason we have so much homogenization now is people complaining. Something about their Job is clunky or weird to use, some other Job has something they want, etc etc. Over time, that leads to everything being pushed into a homogenized slog.

Fact is, we've had Jobs that were distinct and interesting. If people would stop complaining, it would stay that way or be more that way. Yeah, it sucks when you like the aesthetic of a Job but you personally don't enjoy playing it. In an ideal world, every Job would be where it matches the aesthetic, so that people who like the aesthetic probably enjoy the playstyle (e.g. if there was a Thief/Rogue Job with Greased Lightning giving that feel of a really fast, nimble attacker), but sometimes that just doesn't work out.

The nice thing is, we have a lot of different choices, and there's always glamour. Maybe you like BLM's big elemental attacks but don't like the DoTs and procs. There's RDM sitting right there waiting for you that might fit you better, and you can always wear BLM-ish glamours with pointy hats or the Vivi Dwarf helmet cosplay and RP as a THM that learned all kinds of elemental spells to master all the elements like Ang from Avatar.

Point is, people should recognize that different Jobs NEED to be different, otherwise we have a morass of homogenization, which is ultimately boring for everyone. If you really really don't like the way a Job plays, look into some nearby Jobs for one that plays more to your liking and give that one a try. Glamour is magic, (no, really, in lore it is. ), and more people can be GENERALLY happy. The last thing we want is every Job playing just the same exact way.

Not gonna lie, after times I be lurking on the forums and reading your essays (here and there)… 99% of the time I disagree with. For once you're actually making sense, and I totally agree with this statement.

[Rithy255]

Positionals, procs, and button bloat are all objectively bad things that you only like because it keeps new players away from the game. It's disgustingly reductive for inclusion to new players.

Button bloat? sure like as in current Paladin has so many buttons that you'll not use or has no meaning (Shield bash)

Positional? Uh no its like one of the last few interesting things about melee dps, removing it for the sake of being new player friendly? where have i seen that before... oh current tank design... oh current healer design, heck its spewed out onto the DPS players and they're the most vocal about their jobs usually. Removing a big mech from melee DPS jobs will make the game worse for most players, NEW players don't even have to care much about positional, I don't think new players are concerned about high damage or optimising.

Procs? ah yeah just make jobs like Dancer play exactly like another job called machinist instead of embracing some uniqueness that's actually left with job design.


Changing things to make them easier such as reducing healer attack buttons or removing positional does Not effect New players they do not care about doing super well in every dungeon/normal trial. We Don't need a system that encourages making things easier for a group of people who wouldn't even notice.

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

Changing things to make them easier such as reducing healer attack buttons or removing positional does Not effect New players they do not care about doing super well in every dungeon/normal trial. We Don't need a system that encourages making things easier for a group of people who wouldn't even notice.

Huh, that's odd, I wonder why ff11 is a dead game. Oh that's right..! It gated out new players with its clunky outdated design philosophy!

Meanwhile 14 is adapting to new players and thriving by expanding its inclusivity to a wider demographic.

[Mimilu]

Huh, that's odd, I wonder why ff11 is a dead game. Oh that's right..! It gated out new players with its clunky outdated design philosophy!

Meanwhile 14 is adapting to new players and thriving by expanding its inclusivity to a wider demographic.

What does XI have to do with anything? (´⊙ω⊙`)！
Thinking about it, XI doesn't have positionals or procs, so, if anything, you should want XIV to be more like XI! o(≧∇≦o)

[Rychu]

Huh, that's odd, I wonder why ff11 is a dead game. Oh that's right..! It gated out new players with its clunky outdated design philosophy!

Meanwhile 14 is adapting to new players and thriving by expanding its inclusivity to a wider demographic.

FF11 is a "dead" game because its over 20 years old and plays like it, you can't the fundamental core of the game for inclusivity because then it just wouldn't be the same game anymore. This is like if I didn't like how Barret played in FF7 so instead of just changing him out for another party member I bitch and moan to SE to change his playstyle to be more like Tifa. Doesn't make much sense does it?

[dspguy]

DNC reminds me of how MCH was when it came out. You had 3 bullets + 1 reload that guaranteed your 1-2-3 combo would proceed. After that, it was random. If every job had this randomness, such as a MNK or DRG missing a combo, forcing every player to stare at the hotbars, it would be one thing. But, this is limited to DNC and I think RDM. And in my opinion, if it was possible to get every single proc, those jobs might be on par with other high DPS jobs. Which means that every time you don't proc (which is often), it is simply a constant reminder that RNG makes you a lesser DPS.

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

you can't the fundamental core of the game

MINOR GRAMMAR MISTAKE

[DRKoftheAzure]

My issue with Job proc based design is that it could have been used for general proc based design, like accuracy/evasion/block/parry checks, because I feel that Jobs that are DoT based is better design than Jobs that are proc based, even though DoTs could easily be a general design by giving all jobs DoTs.

Having a consistent way of forcing RNG Procs can only go so far in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content before you have to ditch the proc based design entirely...

[Rithy255]

Huh, that's odd, I wonder why ff11 is a dead game. Oh that's right..! It gated out new players with its clunky outdated design philosophy!

Meanwhile 14 is adapting to new players and thriving by expanding its inclusivity to a wider demographic.

This has literally nothing to do with what I even said? Arguably it speaks volumes that FF11 a game that embraces more unique and complexity is still getting a player base at all after all this time. No the reason why ff14 is more popular is because it's more recent and gets updates.

ff14 is already bare bones easy for new players, they don't care about optimizing damage, people aren't going to complain 99% of the time if you aren't playing your job properly in a dungeon run. It has that Wide appeal already, new players don't really care about procs/positionals.

Lets not pretend FF14 Is thriving or doing bad, it's doing alright right now, it could honestly be doing better at keeping players interested. people are less inclined to play because of the lack of content... you know what would make things like that more fun, having actual good job design that promotes differences in each jobs such as Positional on melees, long cast times on casters, procs on some ranged jobs ect.

The game should be player friendly but it should also be friendly to those that want to stick around, those who want more complexity in jobs and frankly a lot of people are kind of fed up with things being made easier and easier, If the game properly was to actually properly thrive they need to do different things then just making jobs easier, retaining players is also very important, a lot of people have been feeling burnout from EW's current design double downing on SHB's design.

Theirs nothing wrong with being new player friendly. But Jobs at level 90-100 (In the next expansion) don't need to be "new/casual" friendly, again if you know the basics of DPS, healing or tanking it's really really easy to play in 90% of the playable content, it was easy back in the older expansions too, all you had to do was press some buttons that lights up and sometimes press your buffs, Even if you're scared of healing in dungeons you can play with Duty support or trusts now... I don't get how the game can be anymore new people friendly at this point.