Dancer is WAY too proc focused

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

Jesus christ, these people complain about EVERYTHING...
Positionals, proc, button bloat...What's the next complaint, the game does not play itself automatically for you?

but worst of all, SE only listens to these kind of people....*sigh*

Positionals, procs, and button bloat are all objectively bad things that you only like because it keeps new players away from the game. It's disgustingly reductive for inclusion to new players.

[Llynethil]

If only we had talent trees for each job, all ofthis could be done away with, that way you can have proc based dancer focussing on the dancing part of the job maybe also be more supportive than dps and have another non proc based on throwing the weapons around or something.

Same with red mage problems, have a somewhat support spec that has verraise, and a dps spell focused spec that doesn't have verraise but can focus on selfish damage equal to other selfish damage specs.

Gunbreaker dps spec, hell go nuts and have a sage tank spec or something with the shields they have.

[kuroashi_sanji]

Positionals, procs, and button bloat are all objectively bad things that you only like because it keeps new players away from the game. It's disgustingly reductive for inclusion to new players.

LMAO.

You know, when I started playing XIV on ARR, I was not only a new player in the game, but in the mmorpg genre as well, even so, I managed to adapt well to the complexity of the game at the time. It was a challenge to adapt, but I managed to do it, and that's the problem with some new players and you, you guys don't want to have a challenge to overcome, so you’re either too lazy or too cowardly to take on a new challenge.
No offense, but that's my opinion. And believe me, when you overcome this challenge, the game becomes much more fun to play.

[Payadopa]

Positionals, procs, and button bloat are all objectively bad things that you only like because it keeps new players away from the game. It's disgustingly reductive for inclusion to new players.

Yes. Like when I play Chess and the other person actually follows the rules of the game while I just want to place my pieces wherever. How dare they gatekeep me.

Also, I'd look up "objectively". It doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Mimilu]

Procs and positionals are objectively bad. Stop trying to gatekeep the game with outdated roadblocks.

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

FINALLY AN UMINEKO POST, at last I can stop shitposting

[ZiraZ]

merely pretending

[Ggwppino]

if the dnc didn't have procs, it wouldn't work as a class, it would be a terribly bare class with 2 no brain button spam. the dnc was thought to be profoundly influenced by procs by exploiting the most playful concept there is: the random factor.

the dnc takes up the random concept of many RPGs and proposes it in a much more modern form. You may or may not like this of course, but if the dnc didn't have procs, right now, it would be worse and more boring than a broil spam

[Renathras]

You know what? I'll stop complaining about the things I don't like, like cast times or positionals, if you leave whatever is left of proc/priority classes alone. Deal?

Honestly, I wish everyone would take this advise of yours.

The reason we have so much homogenization now is people complaining. Something about their Job is clunky or weird to use, some other Job has something they want, etc etc. Over time, that leads to everything being pushed into a homogenized slog.

Fact is, we've had Jobs that were distinct and interesting. If people would stop complaining, it would stay that way or be more that way. Yeah, it sucks when you like the aesthetic of a Job but you personally don't enjoy playing it. In an ideal world, every Job would be where it matches the aesthetic, so that people who like the aesthetic probably enjoy the playstyle (e.g. if there was a Thief/Rogue Job with Greased Lightning giving that feel of a really fast, nimble attacker), but sometimes that just doesn't work out.

The nice thing is, we have a lot of different choices, and there's always glamour. Maybe you like BLM's big elemental attacks but don't like the DoTs and procs. There's RDM sitting right there waiting for you that might fit you better, and you can always wear BLM-ish glamours with pointy hats or the Vivi Dwarf helmet cosplay and RP as a THM that learned all kinds of elemental spells to master all the elements like Ang from Avatar.

Point is, people should recognize that different Jobs NEED to be different, otherwise we have a morass of homogenization, which is ultimately boring for everyone. If you really really don't like the way a Job plays, look into some nearby Jobs for one that plays more to your liking and give that one a try. Glamour is magic, (no, really, in lore it is. ), and more people can be GENERALLY happy. The last thing we want is every Job playing just the same exact way.

EDIT:

I have no mercy about complaining. I main Astrologian and that class got reworked with EVERY expansion, I have the right to say whatever the absolute heck I want. "JuSt pLaY AnOtHeR cLaSs" save your breath.

IF this was directed at me: My statement was in good faith. No need to be a jerk about it.

As I said, I myself don't like procs. So I don't play Jobs that have procs.

But I also recognize a lot of people enjoy procs. They don't like having a static rotation that's always the same, and they enjoy it being broken up or shifted around or having to make active decisions in battle about what the better option is in response to said procs since that determines what options they have at a given time and it's never guaranteed to be the same each time.

I don't like them.

I avoid Jobs that use them.

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be in the game, since I'm mature enough to recognize this game isn't JUST for me, it's for me and for a lot of other people.

Yeah, AST get reworked every expansion. Yeah, that sucks (if you liked a prior version).

...so that should tell you why it's a bad idea to rework Jobs like this, shouldn't it? Because you know how sucky it is. You shouldn't be wanting to inflict that suck on other people.

.

The thing about some of the newer Jobs (RPR, SGE, DNC, GNB, arguably RDM) is that they've never changed. They've always been the way they are (so far). So people that like them can continue liking them and there's not a prior version of people you need to try pleasing with them (e.g. SGE doesn't need to cater to the 4.0 SCH "please give us our DoTs back" crowd, since SGE never existed in any state other than the one it is in now to want them "back").

DNC has always been this way. It's part of its mechanical identity and playstyle. There's not a good reason to change it, and "Well, I have to put up with that with AST!" isn't a good reason to change it. It's a good argument for why NOT to do so.

EDIT2:

Positionals, procs, and button bloat are all objectively bad things that you only like because it keeps new players away from the game. It's disgustingly reductive for inclusion to new players.

I'd agree if every Job had them.

There's at least one option in each role which does not.

None of the Tanks have positionals. None of the Tanks have procs. WAR does not have button bloat (the others do in relative amounts, depending on how many buttons you're comfortable with, but War doesn't at all).

Melee have positionals, though NIN's don't honestly matter. Hug the boss's butt and use Armor Crush and it won't make much difference. I don't think any of the Melee have procs. Quite a few have button bloat, but RPR is good right now, and NIN isn't terrible.

Ranged has MCH without positionals, procs, or button bloat. In fact, none of the three Ranged have button bloat, and it's the role/sub-role in the game where none of the members have button bloat.

Casters don't have positionals at all. SMN doesn't have procs. SMN and RDM don't have button bloat.

Healers don't have positionals at all. SGE is the only one that has procs, and they're only based on a shield breaking, and you tend to avoid using GCD shields on SGE to begin with. Even if you consider AST's cards procs somehow (since they're not all the same and you adjust to them), that still leaves WHM and SCH without procs. AST and SCH have button bloat, but WHM and SGE do not.

So you have WAR, arguably NIN/RPR, MCH, SMN, and WHM as an option from each role that does not have positionals (effectively), procs, or button bloat.

.

Again, I'm a person that doesn't like procs. And I argue all the time against button bloat.

The difference is, my position is there should be at least one Job in each role without them, and there is (other than Melee with positionals, but again, NIN). That way, people can play the game who don't like them. But there should also be options within each role that have them, for those people that want them.

I firmly believe the goal should be to appeal to the most people, and the way to do that IS to have these options within each role.

And FFXIV does just that.

Sure, they could introduce a melee without positionals or procs and without button bloat - like in absolute terms, not like NIN missing the flank positional once per 30 sec not mattering - and I'd be fine with that. But that's really the only thing where this is relevant right now. (And one could argue such a player could just play MCH standing in melee range and get the same experience...)

.

Options.

One of each so all types of players have one they can enjoy.

I think that's the solution, honestly.

[Duskane]

DNC needs more procs tbh
i wanna bird up more often than every 60 seconds