G-give it Back T---T; !!

[redheadturk]

While we're at it, I want Grenado Shot back on MCH.

While we're at it, I want Bio, MIasma, and bane back, and tri disaster on a 30 second recast timer so once you learn tri disaster you never have to deal with the jank of hard casting dots and clipping them when tri disaster comes off cooldown again.

[localareanetwork]

i feel like the only sam player that is indifferent to kaitens existence

[CelestiCer]

I always saw kaiten itself AS the alternative use case for Kenki, which now really has no other use case. - Also bros come on with the "why not ask for something better?" Stuff. This is Square Enix. They don't give take something away and give back "something better." They take something away and best case scenario give it back in a mangled form.

This! Square does indeed not remove skills and then give them back in a more complex/changed manner for increase depth. Some seem to have missed the memo on how every expansion left most Jobs hollowed out, Samurai with 7 simplifications... getting Kaiten back would be a miracle and it's not un-reasonable request as it existed. Very easy to get back.

I disagree with Reinhardt's notion of Kaiten having to be more " multipurpose " since they argued that already at the DPS subsection. Clearly as Non-Samurai player as well, so excuse me if I sense bad faith... It existing prevented Shinten spam gameplay so Functionally, Aesthetically and Thematically to build up to big hits was already multipurpose. Yet... why is Kaiten put under scrutiny to be something completely different when brought back as an overused argument? Like how has that worked out for Dark Arts, Aero III and so many other skills where it not only should come back but also alter how your entire skill-kit works? ( what in the... )

" That Honda Civic you took?... I want it back... and have it be able to transform from a Car? into a boat Plane? with build-in probably not so functioning jacuzzi when changed into a Trike, Get on it!! " <- like what?

Asking Square/Dev's and Co something back how it worked? Is more realistic as they proven to have done that before. After SMN rework? Seeing something new and unproven be implemented from what they have removed? You can tell I'm not very optimistic... vs asking something back I know exactly of what I should get back. Not everything has to be multi-purpose, a spoon/fork/knife work perfectly fine as they is... Not everything has to be a battery powered pocket knife with build in " spork "

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

i feel like the only sam player that is indifferent to kaitens existence

Im probly the Only one that doesnt think Samurai was any more Fun or Complex with Kaiten.
To me it was just an extra button to Press that did have a Cool animation. But thats all it really was.
I think Samurai got buffed to make up for it, plus IaiJutsu's can now be Repeated, so I really dont personally feel like we lost anything, other then that Dopamine Hit & the Familiar Rotation that people were used to.

[Zairava]

what in the...[/B] )

Dark Arts modifying abilities to give them another effect and/or making them stronger was literally how Dark Arts worked.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Im probly the Only one that doesnt think Samurai was any more Fun or Complex with Kaiten.
To me it was just an extra button to Press that did have a Cool animation. But thats all it really was.
I think Samurai got buffed to make up for it, plus IaiJutsu's can now be Repeated, so I really dont personally feel like we lost anything, other then that Dopamine Hit & the Familiar Rotation that people were used to.

To me thats literally why Im crying over for. It was a neat crit skill that gave a cool sword spin animation which thus helped with making the class fantasy of iaijutsu satisfying.

Take that out and the playstyle is easily missed.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

To me thats literally why Im crying over for. It was a neat crit skill that gave a cool sword spin animation which thus helped with making the class fantasy of iaijutsu satisfying.

Take that out and the playstyle is easily missed.

Like, I can get on board and 100% Understand that it made the Job abit more Flashy. Dumb shit like that IS fun and make you wanna play it XD
But in terms of "Complexity" and Simplification and stuff I see people say (one of my IRL friends included) just, I dont see it.

[Zairava]

Like, I can get on board and 100% Understand that it made the Job abit more Flashy. Dumb shit like that IS fun and make you wanna play it XD
But in terms of "Complexity" and Simplification and stuff I see people say (one of my IRL friends included) just, I dont see it.

It simplified it because it removed what gave it nuance. You couldn't just use Shinten because you needed to have 20 Kenki in order to use it. It was the sole form of kenki management after Seigan got axed, which frankly I didn't expect I'd miss Seigan this much.

It didn't make it necessarily complex, but it was part of the job's core fantasy and identity. It got axed for a half-baked "reason" when there were/are SEVERAL other ways they could have reduced button bloat. They deserve the backlash they've been receiving for it, even moreso because of the radio silence.

And it likely will remain radio silent until next year. Yay.

[AnotherPerson]

This! Square does indeed not remove skills and then give them back in a more complex/changed manner for increase depth. Some seem to have missed the memo on how every expansion left most Jobs hollowed out, Samurai with 7 simplifications... getting Kaiten back would be a miracle and it's not un-reasonable request as it existed. Very easy to get back.

It's reasonable to request it, and very reasonable to justify it, but it's unreasonable to think it's very easy to get back based on their history of changes. Just look at healer simplification over the years with DPS and tanks complaining healers don't heal enough even though healer actually do heal, to the point tanks/dps got even more self-sustain/party-sustain that can invalidate healers and healers hasn't gotten anything back in the DPS/support side in response to even lowered healing requirements. Perfectly unreasonable to think it's very easy to get back no matter how simple the request is. The whole reason why it got removed is because crit variance was too big on Samurai, even though they don't say it is (hence the huge rebalance on DPS towards all of Samurai's skills). If it's balanced but functional at the cost of "fun", then they won't change it because lackluster gameplay is subjective, even if the previous majority of players who main that role did enjoy that aspect that was removed. The job gameplay has to be completely broken for them to change anything (see: SCH actually cannot function without Energy Drain in ShB launch or it runs out of MP back then so it was given back) or the entire playerbase has to agree with it (and I mean near 0 dissenting voices and trolls).

[Zairava]

It's reasonable to request it, and very reasonable to justify it, but it's unreasonable to think it's very easy to get back based on their history of changes. Just look at healer simplification over the years with DPS and tanks complaining healers don't heal enough even though healer actually do heal, to the point tanks/dps got even more self-sustain/party-sustain that can invalidate healers and healers hasn't gotten anything back in the DPS/support side in response to even lowered healing requirements. Perfectly unreasonable to think it's very easy to get back no matter how simple the request is. The whole reason why it got removed is because crit variance was too big on Samurai, even though they don't say it is (hence the huge rebalance on DPS towards all of Samurai's skills). If it's balanced but functional at the cost of "fun", then they won't change it because lackluster gameplay is subjective, even if the previous majority of players who main that role did enjoy that aspect that was removed. The job gameplay has to be completely broken for them to change anything (see: SCH actually cannot function without Energy Drain in ShB launch or it runs out of MP back then so it was given back) or the entire playerbase has to agree with it (and I mean near 0 dissenting voices and trolls).

Agree with everything except with what I bolded. Even that reason doesn't hold water. If they wanted to reduce it in this fashion, they literally could have done it by making Kaiten give Iaijutsu guaranteed crits along with the potency changes.