Wishlist for the expansion

[Cabalabob]

Paladin - A Raise that can only be used in your most prominent damage phase AND cost you your entire MP is quite frankly the worst idea I have seen for Paladin so far. Nobody would ever use this, full-stop. You'd sacrifice a beyond-stupid amount of damage that you'd probably be better off if your Healer hardcasted a Raise.

Your healer can’t hard cast a raise if they’re dead. That’s the point of the limitations including the high dps cost, this isn’t meant to be a raise to save people dps, it’s meant to be a raise to save a wipe at the cost of dps. There are so many times I’ve seen situations where it’s just down to the tanks and they can solo/duo the rest of the fight, but that’s not fun for the rest of the party (even if it can be cool to see), but if the PLD could get a healer back up? They could get the rest of the party back into the fight, I’d say that’s worth a requiescat phase.

Warrior - But an awful version of Cover *along with* a damage cost? This one people "might" use in an absolute pinch but nowhere else. Unlike Cover this is just a pain split, so you might generate more negative effects from it.


Putting it bluntly out here - don't suggest things that cost you a metric ton of damage to use.

In some ways it would be more powerful than cover. Unlike cover you’d be able to use this on a co-tank, you’d turn a single target tankbuster into a mini tank buster on both tanks which the WAR would then be able to heal through with nascent flash, but like the PLD raise this isn’t something you’d want to introduce into the meta (same reason PLDs cover got nerfed in the first place) so the damage cost is there to make sure it’s something you’d only use in an emergency.

Yes there’s stuff both these tanks could use in their existing arsenal but we’re here to talk about what’s going to be added that’s completely new. If the next expansion brings nothing but buffs to the existing kit that’s going to be a boring expansion. The idea of these new moves is to be something powerful but not something you’ll use often.

Warrior - plenty of ways they could make Warrior more interesting, such as making a two-fold gauge system, "Wrath & Abandon"

Incidentally, my idea for a WAR rework was similar to this. Bring back defiance and deliverance, not as tank and dps stance, but as MT and OT stance (and give them a new tank stance obviously). Where defiance would give access to WAR’s utility moves such as nascent flash, equilibrium and shake it off, while deliverance would give access to self mitigation skills like raw intuition, vengeance and thrill of battle.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Your healer can’t hard cast a raise if they’re dead. That’s the point of the limitations including the high dps cost, this isn’t meant to be a raise to save people dps, it’s meant to be a raise to save a wipe at the cost of dps. There are so many times I’ve seen situations where it’s just down to the tanks and they can solo/duo the rest of the fight, but that’s not fun for the rest of the party (even if it can be cool to see), but if the PLD could get a healer back up? They could get the rest of the party back into the fight, I’d say that’s worth a requiescat phase.

Realistically the only place where raising a healer is even a necessity is when you are in a dungeon and your only healer dies and you got neither a Summoner or a Red Mage. The problem herein is that dungeons are currently designed that you can basically IGNORE the healer's death and just walk over bosses. All DPS jobs have a modicum of sustain or shielding available to them and all four tank jobs have varying degrees of healing and/or shielding they can give to the remaining DPS. In 8man raids if you lost not one but both healers AND have no raise-casters, you have bigger problems than "man I wish I had a tank that could raise".

The requiescat phase being dropped completely is an unbelievable damage loss that I'd rather let the healer stay dead for the remainder of what amounts to 2-3min of a boss fight than to get them up with zero MP remaining to even use Clemency on them due to the 10000MP cost you suggested. Sacrificing 8s of GCDs due to casting is one thing, losing your entire Blade combo AND all of your MP is worth it in zero types of content. If you are so hellbent on a raise, don't make it cost your bloody Requiescat phase, it is otherwise dead utility only used by turbo casuals what could be a genuinely better ability in that slot.

In some ways it would be more powerful than cover. Unlike cover you’d be able to use this on a co-tank, you’d turn a single target tankbuster into a mini tank buster on both tanks which the WAR would then be able to heal through with nascent flash, but like the PLD raise this isn’t something you’d want to introduce into the meta (same reason PLDs cover got nerfed in the first place) so the damage cost is there to make sure it’s something you’d only use in an emergency.

Yes there’s stuff both these tanks could use in their existing arsenal but we’re here to talk about what’s going to be added that’s completely new. If the next expansion brings nothing but buffs to the existing kit that’s going to be a boring expansion. The idea of these new moves is to be something powerful but not something you’ll use often.

Again, there is zero justification for why you should put a utility behind an obligatory gauge- and therefore damage-cost if it most likely already has a cooldown to restrict the frequent use.

Furthermore this utility in terms of busters only really works well on busters that are single target and don't force swaps. Otherwise it is "pick a dps/healer of choice and hope they live with half the damage taken". Without gauge cost it is an okay utility, with it it is pure garbage.

Incidentally, my idea for a WAR rework was similar to this. Bring back defiance and deliverance, not as tank and dps stance, but as MT and OT stance (and give them a new tank stance obviously). Where defiance would give access to WAR’s utility moves such as nascent flash, equilibrium and shake it off, while deliverance would give access to self mitigation skills like raw intuition, vengeance and thrill of battle.

My idea of such a rendition is less about "MT / OT" stance and more gauge-based stances. Both sides would effectively create the same damage, but using skills from one side would give you extra gauge for the other and vice versa. It also wouldn't restrict utility and defensive tools from each other. I might genuinely make a thread about what I have in mind, I'll happily link you that one here if you want it once I made it.

[Cabalabob]

If you are so hellbent on a raise, don't make it cost your bloody Requiescat phase, it is otherwise dead utility only used by turbo casuals what could be a genuinely better ability in that slot.


Again, there is zero justification for why you should put a utility behind an obligatory gauge- and therefore damage-cost if it most likely already has a cooldown to restrict the frequent use.

To be clear, it’s not ME that wants these drawbacks to the skills. I’d be perfectly happy with copy paste raise for PLD and for WAR to get a utility move like that with no strings attached. But we both know SE won’t go for that due to their strict balance (see current cover and it’s pointless oath gauge cost, shield bash and the fact that literally everything is immune to stun, TBN and it’s janky mp cost, the balancing act between invulns). They simply don’t want jobs to have anything unique without some kind of drawback that makes it totally niche where it otherwise could be something that leads to unique and interesting strats.

Maybe my drawbacks are a bit overzealous, but it’s the kind of thing I’d expect SE to attach to such skills, not because I personally want those drawbacks. Could they have something more useful in its place? Maybe, but that’s just it. PLD and WAR are in a pretty good place, they have great self sustain, personal mitigation and group utility and in WARs case it also has high dps. Unlike DRK and GNB which still have gaps to fill, these jobs don’t NEED anything, so would it hurt them to get something unique, even if it gets nerfed so hard that it will only have niche use cases?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

To be clear, it’s not ME that wants these drawbacks to the skills. I’d be perfectly happy with copy paste raise for PLD and for WAR to get a utility move like that with no strings attached. But we both know SE won’t go for that due to their strict balance (see current cover and it’s pointless oath gauge cost, shield bash and the fact that literally everything is immune to stun, TBN and it’s janky mp cost, the balancing act between invulns). They simply don’t want jobs to have anything unique without some kind of drawback that makes it totally niche where it otherwise could be something that leads to unique and interesting strats.

Maybe my drawbacks are a bit overzealous, but it’s the kind of thing I’d expect SE to attach to such skills, not because I personally want those drawbacks. Could they have something more useful in its place? Maybe, but that’s just it. PLD and WAR are in a pretty good place, they have great self sustain, personal mitigation and group utility and in WARs case it also has high dps. Unlike DRK and GNB which still have gaps to fill, these jobs don’t NEED anything, so would it hurt them to get something unique, even if it gets nerfed so hard that it will only have niche use cases?

Maybe design ideas not with what Creative Business Unit 3's devs have in mind when theys have a track record of making terrible design decisions and don't double down on what is already bad by making even worse designs.

You have the freedom to literally think of anything and you choose to restrict yourself to their balancing philosophy. Why?

(also TBN MP cost is hardly as jank as being the last damn mechanic a DRK needs to have a braincell for so if they remove the MP cost I will f-ing riot.)

[Cabalabob]

You have the freedom to literally think of anything and you choose to restrict yourself to their balancing philosophy. Why?

Because if you don’t, people will just cry “balance”, even with the massive drawbacks I’ve put on it that you feel would make it unusable there are STILL people in this very thread saying that it would be unbalanced.

I could have said 6 second cast time, 5k mp cost and it would be just as niche as what I suggested, but the only response that’s going to get is “totally unbalanced, PLD meta tank”.