Just get rid of ranked

[Towa-Musa]

Huh? I mean difficulty is very subjective. Someone who clears Ultimates would probably say they are easy just like I would say getting to top 100 is easy. Also, I never mentioned anything about the difficulty of each of the content, I am speaking solely about the time investment required to "clear" each of these pieces of content and the playerbase they are designed for.

In another lens, would it make sense for a casual PvE player who mostly does Island Sanctuary, chocobo racing, and has great difficulty completing daily roulettes to say "all ultimates should be deleted because the only difficulty is getting random people in party finder/discord and installing illegal cheating add-ons?"

It still does not change my point, not to mention i doubt they're gonna make anymore ultimates BECAUSE of the cheating scandal lol
i will again explain my point to you in a way you can understand

Yes they should just get rid of ranked because it literally has nothing to offer that casual mode does not already have
No you cannot compare Ultimate raids to ranked because:
1. its pve and you fight against a massive damage sponge and theres no fomo
2. ultimate raids respect your time investment, ranked does not.

[Towa-Musa]

But this is very clearly and factually incorrect. Players on JPN servers do ultimates/extreme/savage and complete them using duty finder every single day. Solo, with random team mates, without any addons installed, and on PS4 controllers.

In what way is ranked mode not the PvP equivalent to the most challenging PvE content? Let's even concede and say you are correct in making these claims; what then do you consider to be the most challenging PvP content that IS designed in the same vein as the the most challenging PvE content?

This is not JP, stop arguing semantics
in NA you WILL NOT find a lobby worth your time when it comes to duty finder for ultimates (good luck finding one lol)

[Mistress_Irika]

But this is very clearly and factually incorrect. Players on JPN servers do ultimates/extreme/savage and complete them using duty finder every single day. Solo, with random team mates, without any addons installed, and on PS4 controllers.

In what way is ranked mode not the PvP equivalent to the most challenging PvE content? Let's even concede and say you are correct in making these claims; what then do you consider to be the most challenging PvP content that IS designed in the same vein as the the most challenging PvE content?

That is JPN. NA operates on a different set of rules. Unless you have your own static to be in blind runs are not allowed. You have to know the fight already prior to entering. Again, duty finder is dead. In the extreme rare case that you are able to get an extreme popping (usually through a mentor doing mentor roulette) someone will explain the benefits of doing the hard fights in party finder before quitting if they don't feel like doing it.

We're not here for that though. Let's try and answer your questions.

In my opinion crystal conflict is frontlines 2.0. It cannot be compared to ultimates/extremes/savages. You are comparing pure killing instances to objective-based instances. The pve stuff it's either kill within the time limit or be killed. CC your win condition is based on who pushed the crystal away from the starting point the furthest. Kills cannot be a major factor, especially in low rank where you can easily be punished for playing feast while letting the other team push. Speaking of which, feast is a better option for comparing that to the hard pve things (not factoring rewards. That's a totally different topic.).

[Towa-Musa]

That is JPN. NA operates on a different set of rules. Unless you have your own static to be in blind runs are not allowed. You have to know the fight already prior to entering. Again, duty finder is dead. In the extreme rare case that you are able to get an extreme popping (usually through a mentor doing mentor roulette) someone will explain the benefits of doing the hard fights in party finder before quitting if they don't feel like doing it.

We're not here for that though. Let's try and answer your questions.

In my opinion crystal conflict is frontlines 2.0. It cannot be compared to ultimates/extremes/savages. You are comparing pure killing instances to objective-based instances. The pve stuff it's either kill within the time limit or be killed. CC your win condition is based on who pushed the crystal away from the starting point the furthest. Kills cannot be a major factor, especially in low rank where you can easily be punished for playing feast while letting the other team push. Speaking of which, feast is a better option for comparing that to the hard pve things (not factoring rewards. That's a totally different topic.).

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it...

[Astralrisk]

In my opinion crystal conflict is frontlines 2.0. It cannot be compared to ultimates/extremes/savages. You are comparing pure killing instances to objective-based instances. The pve stuff it's either kill within the time limit or be killed. CC your win condition is based on who pushed the crystal away from the starting point the furthest. Kills cannot be a major factor, especially in low rank where you can easily be punished for playing feast while letting the other team push. Speaking of which, feast is a better option for comparing that to the hard pve things (not factoring rewards. That's a totally different topic.).

I don't think they are saying the objectives of high end pve and pvp are the same. They are saying it more of has to deal with being the hardest piece of content in the respective game modes. Whether you deem something like CC's objective gameplay to be a proper measure of that skill or something like Feast which was more combat focused is up to you. (If you wanna get really technical with it, Feast is technically also objective based with how the medal pick up part of the mode but generally it is still a lot more combat focused).

[Sinstrel]

That is JPN. NA operates on a different set of rules.


In my opinion crystal conflict is frontlines 2.0. It cannot be compared to ultimates/extremes/savages.

To your first point, the fact is that SE is not going to make two separate types of a game mode tailored to each region just because a particular region decided not to play the game the way it was intended. Regardless of whether or not NA "operates on a seperate set of rules" XIV is a Japanese game and will be made with a particular way of play in mind, which is the way the JPN playerbase is playing (on console, without installing addons, using party finder for practice, and duty finder for clearing content with random players). So I'd imagine this will extend to PvP's design as well (using casual for practice, and ranked for "clearing" the content with random players).

To your second point, I beleive you may have this opinion because of what I mentioned at the outset; the amount of time investment required to even begin to start scratching the surface of how to play the game mode is enormous. Not to belittle your experience (that is not my intent here), but as I mentioned before the average player would need over a thousand wins at least to begin to truly and fundamentally understand how CC works in the higher echelons of play.

There are certain aspects that you dont even begin to understand the value of until you have that much experience, such as; pushing crystal most of the time is not necessary, your HP is also a resource and must be used to pad for your allies (you cant avoid taking damage all game then blame your random team mates for them dying), your k/d/a score at the end of the game means less and less the higher you climb.

I see people here complaining about how they spent the most time on crystal, highest damage, highest heals, no deaths and still lost the game. This tells me they have a novice understanding of the fundamentals.

Their damage was top because they are on the crystal fighting 1 enemy the entire game while their team is losing skirmishes off the crystal. If you're sitting on crystal with max uptime on another novice who thinks its time to push crystal, of course youll be top damage and heals on yourself. Even worse if you play an AoE based job like DRG, RPR, SMN, SCH but never join the team fights because youre always 1v1ing on the crystal. This is almost a garaunteed loss.

There are so many more things to learn, and when I read that you consider ranked CC as "just Frontline 2.0", the only way I can understand that point of view is if it comes from a person who has not experienced the higher ended and more nuanced gameplay of ranked because I once felt the same way before I began taking it seriously (and no, crystal rank in season 1 through 3 does not count as there was no way to de rank for a loss and you could just sit and wait for a luck streak to carry you to the next teir). I would never say something like "ultimates/extremes/savages are just leveling roulette 2.0" as it would be a great disservice to everyone who poured countless hours into those content to be good at them, only one who does not have the experience could possibly think in this way.

[Mistress_Irika]

It's getting difficult not to go into a mindless ramble lol

Snip from previous post

I won't say anything about the first point, because it's factual and obvious. Enough said.

As for the second point...even with you explaining it the way you did I'm not sure if I'll ever change my stance or views for crystal conflict. I will agree with putting tons of hours in for modes in order to master them. However I will somewhat disagree with you based off that point was used. At the end of the day everyone either wins or loses in pve. In pvp there must be a winner or loser. Regardless, you have given me something to ponder on since I'm somewhat in doubt with my reasoning here.

The true reason why I view CC as another mini frontlines mode was the way it was presented. First, win rate is not a factor at all. SE may have total win rates as far as their reasoning for making buffs, nerfs, and overall adjustments to classes, but we don't have our personal win rates to see where we need to make improvements at. It's as though we being told not to take the mode seriously. Matchmaking would probably be slightly better if win rates were to be taken into account instead of just current queuing class and current rank. We have what we have. It is what it is at this point. Secondly it's the mode itself. Kills do lead to wins, but it's as you said: KDA means less and less the higher you go. Regardless, many value this for how well they done in an objective game. Also, let's be honest here. They made it way easier to kill from pressuring. Depending on what rank you're at you're just not going to see many (if at all) kills from bursts/nukes until mid diamond at least. I love CC to death, but I just don't see exactly how it is a good replacement for feast, successful or not.

All that being said I'm not on your level, and with the way I farm more aggro than rank these days I'm pretty certain I'm not going to be there for a while if at all. I'm not afraid to admit that. I'm good enough to at least separate myself from the casuals. Yet I'm bad enough to be barred from enjoying high level games. Most of everyone using the pvp forums has probably hit Crystal or experience Crystal gameplay for at least a season. Meanwhile, I've never touched Crystal before, and I only have 3 hours of experience at most with Crystal games before I was shoved back down to the dead queues. Not exactly sure how I can personally improve in general at this point. Casual mode doesn't give me the immediate feedback, regardless of games being put in due to too many blowout games.

[Valence]

2. ultimate raids respect your time investment, ranked does not.

What the heck? Ultimates respecting my time? This has to be one of the types of content in game that is literally constructed around artificial difficulty based on 20min long bosses where you literally have to replay 10-15min of the fight every time you want to prog further in the latest phases...

And that's supposed to be respecting my time?

[Towa-Musa]

What the heck? Ultimates respecting my time? This has to be one of the types of content in game that is literally constructed around artificial difficulty based on 20min long bosses where you literally have to replay 10-15min of the fight every time you want to prog further in the latest phases...

And that's supposed to be respecting my time?

Okay let me ask you this question and answer honestly;
which one respects your time more?

1. ff14 ranked pvp
2. Ultimate raids

I can guarantee you that The raids respect your time more then the ranked does since you ACTUALLY PROGRESS

[Towa-Musa]

What the heck? Ultimates respecting my time? This has to be one of the types of content in game that is literally constructed around artificial difficulty based on 20min long bosses where you literally have to replay 10-15min of the fight every time you want to prog further in the latest phases...

And that's supposed to be respecting my time?

Unless you are VERY lucky you will make more progress in a Ultimate raid then you will ranked in a day, not to mention you will probably feel better about completing a ultimate raid then you will hitting crystal.