Day 8 after last Patch ...

[KitingGenbu]

How is it difficult to comprehend that content from years ago was long lasting for the period it was available in that expac cycle, but is no longer lasting due to the current length of time since release and exhaustion of said content?

The problem is you're determining who feels the content is 'exhausted,' not the people who are actually doing it. Plenty of people skip current content like extremes just so they can solo it at different time, so that makes it content for them. Just because you have it already done and dusted when it first comes out doesn't devalue it just because its not 'relevant' to the current power gains. This is more so true when you start to label 'casual' to things, since there are some 'casuals' who do not do extreme fights when they are current. Again, neither of us has actual number to work with in terms of who's still engaging in past content, but to say older content isn't 'content' just because time passes is subjective. I mean even in a game like WoW there's whole communities dedicated to running older dungeons/raids for money/cosmetics/etc. But I guess from your perspective, that's not real 'content.' Again, maybe you can give me your idea of what 'content' in general should be and what is defined as 'long lasting content.'

[Ransu]

Stop saying "I can't wait until expansion x.x." let's just accept they would rather have this stale formula rather than shake things up. BTW I HATE ISLAND SANCTUARY, who the heck asked for that!?

Who asked for Bozja? I sure didn't as I wanted another deep dungeon. You can't always get what you want.

[GTK0HLK]

-snip-

Then there's the added fact some people just rerun old content for fun or the joy of it..,
and this isn't the whole point some people like to strawman with when it comes to rewards and etc.

I mean actually rerun cause they like it. as some will rerun content for others, or if they have a craving for the organization or the mechanics related to them. Which is why Eureka doesn't completely die out(outside of the Discords)

The thread seems to focus on the idea of new content for old players, as well as other threads..,
While yes it may seem out of place or nonsense to those that burned out all content they deem worthy like Zenos did.
The relevancy of its existence as repayable, or set up for later doesn't discount it as content

[R041]

The problem is you're determining who feels the content is 'exhausted,' not the people who are actually doing it. Plenty of people skip current content like extremes just so they can solo it at different time, so that makes it content for them. Just because you have it already done and dusted when it first comes out doesn't devalue it just because its not 'relevant' to the current power gains. This is more so true when you start to label 'casual' to things, since there are some 'casuals' who do not do extreme fights when they are current. Again, neither of us has actual number to work with in terms of who's still engaging in past content, but to say older content isn't 'content' just because time passes is subjective. I mean even in a game like WoW there's whole communities dedicated to running older dungeons/raids for money/cosmetics/etc. But I guess from your perspective, that's not real 'content.' Again, maybe you can give me your idea of what 'content' in general should be and what is defined as 'long lasting content.'

Your whataboutisms are exhausting. We get it - using previous expansion content as an excuse for us to not get equal longevity for new content is getting old.

Regardless, you're using that excuse to belittle the current wants. That's all that matters right now, you're not saying "Yeah but people are still chewing on that content". Your argument is in bad faith, because no - Most of them aren't.

Why get new expansion when we have ARR? Plenty to do there!

Do you all see the hilarious irony in claiming we have way more content and patches than other MMOs, while simultaneously saying we should just go do old content because there isn't anything to do in current cycles?

The problem is you're determining who feels the content is 'exhausted,'

This specifically shows me how rotten your brain is. I'm not out here trying to determine feefees, it's just a fact that the majority of the players that actually played the game during those expansions have most likely exhausted that content. If they did not 3-6 years later? Then they likely never will at this point, so they're not even a part of this discussion to be honest.

[KitingGenbu]

Your whataboutisms are exhausting. We get it - using previous expansion content as an excuse for us to not get equal longevity for new content is getting old.

Regardless, you're using that excuse to belittle the current wants. That's all that matters right now, you're not saying "Yeah but people are still chewing on that content". Your argument is in bad faith, because no - Most of them aren't.

Why get new expansion when we have ARR? Plenty to do there!

Do you all see the hilarious irony in claiming we have way more content and patches than other MMOs, while simultaneously saying we should just go do old content because there isn't anything to do in current cycles?





This specifically shows me how rotten your brain is. I'm not out here trying to determine feefees, it's just a fact that the majority of the players that actually played the game during those expansions have most likely exhausted that content. If they did not 3-6 years later? Then they likely never will at this point.

I'm impressed that your entire post just now is based off of my first sentence. 1) What you deem 'enough content' in a given patch will differ from others for a multitude of reasons, like: a) there's different things for different people in a given patch (raids, dungeons, crafting, etc), b) even if its content they might like, they might not like grinding it week after week or day after day. 2) You're not providing any metrics to determine who is 'chewing' on what content on a day-to-day basis. At best, the numbers you can propose will be anecdotal.

The role of an expansion is to add new things for a variety of people. By definition, an expansion is supposed to expand upon what exists, which the team is doing. When you get a new job, you have to go through old content (in most cases) to level it up until it can reach current. The role of a patch is to further back up the ideas of the expansion in chunks. The problem you and others seem to have is 'how much should be enough' and 'for who.' The development team's job is to try and provide content at a given time that reaches a variety of players (among other things, which should be taken into account when you realize how much work went into updating previous expansions to make them more new-player friendly). Unfortunately, not everyone will always like it (many people hated Diadem/Eureka/Bozja when they were first introduced). Getting hyperbolic just because you do not feel there is enough new 'shinies' for you to play with every patch is just a personal problem.

[Xeronia]

I already did all I wanted in the patch but I fully understand the complaint here, you can tell someone there is a ton of content but it doesn't matter if they don't want to do it. I personally am just holding my house/FC house and hoping next expansion is better for stuff to do. Thank heavens I saw this coming and bought games I would enjoy more on sale to tide me over.

[GaiusDrakon]

is just a personal problem.

[R041]

...

No, it was about your whole post - Telling us to make our own fun, when we know it's not even remotely possible considering the systems we have. We have housing. Congratulations, that's our 'make your own fun'. Nobody's speed running dungeons against each other because they're bad, and not even remotely challenging. That's a no brainer. You all play make-believe like we're on the same level as WoW with 'make your own fun'. But you know deep down that isn't true.

You can't tell me you genuinely believe Eureka and Bozja today are just as popular, and have just as much engagement as they did on their release cycle. Sure people are randomly doing it once in awhile, but the majority of the people that have played that expansion aren't doing it today.

Yeah, you're not worth my time. You know what you're arguing against, and it just isn't in good faith.

I don't even know why you're in this thread - You don't seem to have a 90, and only 1 80. More congratulations I guess. Unless it's an alt. lol

[GaiusDrakon]

Nobody's speed running dungeons against each other because they're bad, and not even remotely challenging.

Dungeon speedrunning was actually a thing IIRC, not sure about now. It's actually far harder than Savage speedrunning technically because movement is important and you do not have the luxury of having clean cooldowns on bosses and on mobs. Furthermore, it's actually not always optimal to use AoE attacks on 3+ targets which makes it even harder to optimize. It depends on the HP distribution of the mobs. For example, on DRG, you're going to use Geirskogul anyways regardless of whether there are 1 or 3 mobs. If the HP of the mobs are 5000, 1M, 5000 respectively, you would not use your AoE combo at all, and just wait for Geirskogul to naturally come up to kill them. That's a simple example. Another example is that it's worthwhile to use a hard-hitting GCD on a mob with higher HP (in Lapis Manali for example there is a pull with 2 500k mobs, and the rest are 320k mobs IIRC), for example a DoT. In this case it may be optimal to use, for example, a Dia on the two 500k mobs before using Holy. In general, AoE theorycrafting in this game is practically non-existent so anyone who does dungeon speedrunning actually needs to do their own theorycrafting. It's way more fun than Savage speedrunning. This is also why BJ/CC is my favorite phase among all the Ultimates: the presence of 2 targets significantly increase the skill ceiling and room for optimization. I don't actually care that much about BJ/CC mechs at all, they aren't hard.

No one does dungeon speedrunning because it's not shown on the main FFLogs profile (you have to actively look for it). Only reason people even do parse runs in Savage is because it shows on FFLogs. I'm convinced if FFLogs didn't exist 90% of raiders would just unsub after BiS.

And regardless, speedrunning is an activity that appeals to like 0.1% of players in any game. You can't call that content.

[KitingGenbu]

No, it was about your whole post - Telling us to make our own fun, when we know it's not even remotely possible considering the systems we have. We have housing. Congratulations, that's our 'make your own fun'. Nobody's speed running dungeons against each other because they're bad, and not even remotely challenging. That's a no brainer. You all play make-believe like we're on the same level as WoW with 'make your own fun'. But you know deep down that isn't true.

You can't tell me you genuinely believe Eureka and Bozja today are just as popular, and have just as much engagement as they did on their release cycle. Sure people are randomly doing it once in awhile, but the majority of the people that have played that expansion aren't doing it today.

Yeah, you're not worth my time. You know what you're arguing against, and it just isn't in good faith.

Aren't you already 'making your own fun' when you decide to play the game? I mean, this whole thread is about people wanting more things they essentially find fun. You find a system similar to M+ fun, which is cool. Personally, I'm with you on that. Criterion and Variant Dungeons were an abysmally missed opportunity that they'll probably flounder about with and eventually redesign it (or abandon). It would've been nice if they just gave older capped dungeons the unreal treatment and maybe add some affixes to them. Definitely would've saved them more time in development by doing so and created a much needed 'mid-game.' More ideas like this are better than complaining about not enough stuff.

Again, metrics matter. One good thing that the streamer 'boom' has brought to this game was the revitalization of older content (to an extent). And chances are, if something is just becoming irrelevant then they'll adjust it in some way in the future. People need to temper their expectations with this game and this development team. I dont know if you were around for the 'wooshing' Bard and Machinist gameplay, but people had to wait (myself included since I was a bard main until HW) that entire expansion to see changes. Now you're getting class adjustments and straight up reworks mid-expansion. Is it laughable to call something like that progress? Sure. But its how it is. They're 'getting better' about fixes/adjustments while still trying to add new things that do not always pan-out. Best thing you can do if you want to see change is to stop paying until the game is more inline with what you want it to be (if that ever happens), because you have to be subbed to talk here, which means they're less inclined to do anything if they already have your money.